by What Now? 30 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
outsmartthesystem - yes, I would agree with that. ANY excuse will be satisfactory to certain folks. Heck, the Governing Body gives no scriptural reason why they should be accepted as "representatives" of the Slave Class, but people still accept them as such. However, if you're a thinking person (preferably one that already entertains some doubts), then hopefully the "makeweight scenario" is for you.
Cedars
"She used that argument against the 1975 fiasco...saying that the society probably never saw the verse that says 'no one will know the time or day' (Matthew 24:36). "
What???? I would have gone APE SHIT with that one. This is supposed to be God's one and only organization.....picked by Christ f***ing Jesus himself.....and they were unaware that verse was in the bible? The organization was around for almost 100 years at that point and they had NO IDEA that the very one that selected them as the only true religion is also the one that SAID THOSE WORDS? That alone is evidence that Christ didn't choose them! It isn't like these words were hidden in Nahum the 2nd chapter (even if they were it would matter). These words were written in one of the gospel accounts! Give me your mom's phone number.....I need to call her.
don't get me wrong....I love the make-weight scenario. But you're right. It only works if the person is ready to confront their beliefs with fact. If they aren't ready....then it too will fail
"She used that argument against the 1975 fiasco...saying that the society probably never saw the verse that says 'no one will know the time or day'
She's not all that bright, I take it...
Thank you all for replying.
@cedars - Thanks again, this illustration really hit home for me.
@outsmartthesysstem, you said "I could easily see a devout JW saying...."Well......Jacob used deceit to trick his father into blessing him in lieu of Esau.....and obviously Jehovah approved........so yeah.....I could easily see the society using incorrect information to teach us. Who are we to question why Jehovah approved of Jacob's use of deceit? Likewise....who are we to question why Jehovah would allow a false teaching to be presented to his sheep as a "present truth".
That's exactly the type of answer I'm expecting!
I often here Witnesses say in the governing body's defence the argument that "Jesus apostles at times had wrong expectations...". To me, that is such a weak argument. There is a big difference in speculating amongst yourselves about something, and claiming to be God's sole channel of communication on earth, printing your ideas as facts, and demonizing anyone who might disagree with you.
That's funny, using Jacob and Esau as an example that God approved the use of deceit or incorrect information. Going back to the birth of Issac's twins, God have already made mention that the older brother will serve the younger (Gen 25:23).
And the LORD said unto her, "Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger.
Therefore there is no need for Jacob to use deceit (he used it twice) to get the birthright of the firstborn and the blessing of Issac , however he did it anyway, because he and his mother did not believe that promise. Here's what WT forgets to mention, the consequences of Jacob's deceit (Gen 27:41-44). Jacob was forced to flee for his life, then he slaved for Laban 14 years, experienced deceit practiced on him by his own uncle. He experienced heartbreak when he thought Joseph had died, his own sons lied to him. God did bless Jacob in the end, but not because He approved of the deceit, but that Jacob repented of his sins. Did WT repent after disseminating false truths/prophecies?
Cedars; coincidentally I brought this up with my Mother about a week ago. I used the principle of “Let your yes mean yes and your no, no.” She said that Jehovah changed his mind to bring about destruction on the ancient world in Noah’s time and referenced the scripture of “how he felt regret and would wipe out man from the face of the earth”. She also pointed out the example of Nineveh where Jehovah also changed his mind to bring about destruction on the city.
I said for one thing that has nothing to do with Jehovah changing his mind, it is a matter of erroneous interpretation and, did Jehovah guide the FDS to come to an incorrect conclusion, furthermore did he allow them to hold the correct view, change their mind to hold the incorrect view and them back to the correct view? If so, what purpose did this have? If you could interview the families that lost loved ones due to the WTS misapplied scriptural viewpoint on organ transplants and the hundreds if not thousands that have lost their lives due to the organic viewpoint on blood and fractions; What would they say? Don’t throw the resurrection in my face either. Imagine the pain and suffering they have been through emotional, mental and financial stress this may have caused.
Then I left with a remark that left her dumbfounded. I said, however based on your argument that Jehovah can and have demonstrated that he can change his mind, perhaps he has changed his mind about backing the WT, maybe it is due to their reckless policy when it comes to protecting our children from pedophiles. (something even she agrees needs to be addressed) Or maybe he has changed his mind about Armageddon altogether; maybe that is why it hasn’t occurred yet-because Jehovah has now changed his mind! It left her speechless but I could tell the wheels were spinning and was clearly agitated by the notion. She has stated several times how she never though her own children would finish school, let alone get married and have children, she is now a great grandmother and still-no Armagheddon!
iclone - wow, sounds like a heated discussion! I can understand your frustration, although I'm sure you gave her some food for thought. I've said similar blunt things to my Dad, and although it visibly upsets them you just never know whether something you say will stick. Like you say, there is a world of difference between changing your mind about destroying people and deliberately feeding false and deceptive doctrinal information. Let's hope your Mum ponders over it...
Cedars
I wouldn't go so far to say that my mom isn't bright...it's just that anyone will end up saying things like that when they become a hard-core JW. It's very sad actually, because she (and all other hard-core JWs) lets the society cloud her judgment. That same night, she said that the whole 1975 dilemma was just Satan at work...which is absurd. How could Jehovah let his "organization" be controlled by Satan? It makes no sense.
elderelite - You said something that just might be everything I need to finally quit this stupid cult - "Truth doesn't change". And yet, "The Truth" TM keeps changing all the time. It makes me sick.
