Jesus died on a stake or a cross?

by 2SYN 30 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  Justin

  I have found an internet article on the archeological find I reported. Go to http://www.uncc.edu/jdtabor/crucifixion.html . This article contains some illustrations which contradict my original reply that the crucified victim was "squatting" - my reply was based on a news magazine article which I read when the find was originally made. Now the man in the illustration is portrayed upright, with his ancles nailed at the side and his arms tied around the crossbar. In Jesus' case, however, according to the Biblical narrative (John 20:25), even his hands were nailed.

  I think what we have to remember, first of all, is that the archeological find is just one example out of thousands of ancient crucifixions - we don't know if it was truly representative or not. But even more importantly, the way the crucifixion is represented in religious art is highly symbolic. No one, not even the JWs with their Jesus hanging from an upright post, attempts to convey the horror of the crucifixion. We must grasp the difference between religous or symbolic "truth" and literal historical truth.

  The early Christians realized, even before they started depicting it in art, that the death of Jesus had more significance to it than a mere historical report could convey. They would quote a verse from one of the Septuagint psalms, which was not in the original, but which read, "The Lord reigns from the tree." To them, Jesus had gained a great victory and began reigning even from the stauros. Similarly, with regard to the deaths of the martyrs, the Revelation states: "These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." (7:14) Historically, the martyrs were covered with their own blood, but on a deeper level they were washed in Jesus' blood because they had joined him as victorious overcomers.

  It would be a good idea to view anew the death of Jesus as portrayed in art (including the icons of the Eastern Orthdox Church) and to realize that it conveys more than just the historical reality. The WT realizes the importance of symbols - that's why it took away the Cross as a symbol to which the JWs could relate. They have their own set of symbols which convey a different view of spiritual reality.

  Justin
• 

  Adonai438

  If this helps why don't you visit the thread I had on the topic a bit ago-- I can't find it though so I'll e-mail you what I had on my computer-- sorry
  <>< Angie
• 

  2SYN

  Thanks people! The light gets brighter eh!

  The earlier in the forenoon you take the sun bath, the greater will be the beneficial effect, because you get more of the ultra-violet rays, which are healing. - The Golden Age
• 

  plmkrzy

  That Is to Weird! I tried bringing up that thread to and can't find it.
  There was one started by Butalbee about a month ago. A lot of posters responded with a bunch of different research. It wasn't that lond ago but it seems to be GONE? go figure.
  There was one particular poster who had some good research I'll try and remember who it was.

  "The fellow that agrees with everything you say is either a fool or he is getting ready to skin you."
  - Kin Hubbard
• 

  DazedAndConfused

  gumby, I would really be interested in the quoted information you are speaking about. From what I remember, there was a to do about the method. It seemed to make a major difference in accepting the JW "way".

  Personally, I don't care how he died, what matters to me is that he sacrificed himself for me. Cross/stake what does it really matter?
• 

  Will Power

  Same mentality as making the symbol of blood more important than the life that it symbolizes.

  Teaching that the cross has some evil power over anyone who wears it or hangs it, is just their way of keeping the R&F isolated from another huge group of people. Since the cross identifies the sacrifice
  to most and the JW's deny this to most (all but annointed) they must stay separate.

  So naturally they weave the story to come up with more truth[tm]. When you teach that Jesus is the "Abaddon" "king of the abyss" which has come "parousia" but is "hiding" and later in Rev 22 "is coming" "is not coming" "is" "isn't" you would also need to keep all things that are identified with him just as satanic as well.

  Hard pill to swallow? that is the truth.
• 

  plmkrzy

  "Teaching that the cross has some evil power over anyone who wears it or hangs it,"

  wow that just flew right by me. "Evil Power"? How come I wasn't told!

  "The fellow that agrees with everything you say is either a fool or he is getting ready to skin you."
  - Kin Hubbard
• 

  Will Power

  You don't remember learning that satan rules all? and that there are many gods and goddesses? and they can trick you into accidently worshipping them if you take part in any of their symbolism? Cross, christmas (a birthday) , flag day, cats, (oh no, that one is ok).
• 

  Will Power

  Evil powers, hmmmmmmmmm, which is more powerful?

  cross or smurf, or champagne toast? Or is it fear.

  Josepheus Flavious (sp?) secular historian of the "times" has an excellent couple of paragraphs about the crucifixion.
• 

  MoeJoJoJo

  I researched this not too long ago myself. Here is a site that has some good info on the subject. It discusses the Society's Reasoning Book explanation of cross vs. stake. You can see how the Society takes their quotes from other sources completely out of context. Its pretty amazing. The society quotes the Imperial Bible Dictionary and the Liddel & Scott's greek to english lexicon.
  The greek word xylon (or xulon) is also used in the Bible,for cross, and it is translated as "that which is made of wood". the definition says it could be a perch, a wooden spoon, a peg....but the Reasoning book conveniently leaves these words out of the definition

  < http://members.tripod.com/sosoutreach/phone/crossx.html