stake or cross?
by Tekel 46 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Finkelstein
I'm sure it was also a throw of dirt upon Christendom itself, the JWS have always been involved in doing that.
They really went after the Catholics and Protestants in a big way, one time even encouraging their devout members
to walk up and down in front of those Churches while carrying plac cards, denouncing them openly in public.
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Sulla
I have read where one academic (sorry for the JW-like description, but I really can't recall who said it right this minute) considered the teaching on the "stake" to be the most gratuitous of all the JW beliefs.
From an organizational history perspective, does anyone know if this was related to the adoption by the JWs of Hislop's Two Babylons. I seem to recall that the book was very popular with JWs and served as the basis for lots of discussion back in the day -- was even referenced in some of the literature. I can't recall if it was the basis for the whole cross=Tammuz worship, but that sort of thing was all throughout that book.
The book itself was a classic piece of American Protestant pseudo-intellectual anti-Catholic spew; as such, the JWs slurped it up.
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God_Delusion
If you want to know if you should cross your steak, the answer is yes.
If you want to know if Jesus Christ died on a Cross or Stake, read this - http://www.jehovahswitnessblog.com/jehovahs-witness-beliefs/did-jesus-christ-die-on-a-cross-or-stake/
Cheers,
Jaymes -
LouBelle
Tekel does it matter to you? IF it does, why? One thing I suggest you do is reseach how the romans killed criminals back then. You will find your anwer there.
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Black Sheep
Welcome to the forum, Tekel.
It makes me cross that it is a mistake to use IE9 on the forum. Try another browser, or look for a compatibilty button. Chrome & FF work ok.
Cheers
Chris
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Quendi
I have really enjoyed this discussion and want to thank OldGenerationDude for his research and contributing his findings. The only thing I have to add is that I'm not surprised now that I'm out. After all, this is the same organization that insists the Babylonians destroyed Jerusalem in 607 rather than 587 BC despite overwhelming proof to the contrary. So we shouldn't be shocked that it is wrong on the cross/stake question. And yes, it does matter because it speaks to the credibility of this religion. So I strongly disagree with oompa's assertions. The sign on the cross was not a small one. It had to be large enough for onlookers to read and contain the message which was written in three languages which used three different alphabets.
The real reason for the rejection of traditional holidays and issues like the cross and blood is because both J.F. Rutherford and his successor N.H. Knorr were determined to put their own stamps on the organization and divorce it from the cult of C.T. Russell that had developed. Their policies completely reshaped the religion and created a separation from traditional Christianity which suited the purposes of the leaders. Among other things it allowed them to gain the kind of control that only the popes had, a control their successors have no intention of relinquishing.
Quendi
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WTWizard
I don't think it really makes that much of a difference. I didn't care then, I don't now. The cross is a stolen pagan symbol that represents several things. One is the Cross of the Zodiac. Another is the Southern Cross. Yet another, the Upside Down Cross, represents the major chakras aligned with the hip chakras.
Stake? That too was stolen. There were at least 18 other stories where a hero died either on a cross, a tree, or a stake. All are similar to Jesus, and all relate to the sun. The sun "dies" on the Zodiac Cross right before Christmas each year, sits there for three days, and rises on Christmas Day.
Either way, it means nothing to me--I prefer the sun anyways.
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Fernando
Welcome to JWN Tekel!
Do you want to pay by cheque or credit card?
Beware of the "unstated assumption" which is a key propaganda technique.
The "unstated assumption" is that you have decided to buy, and just need to figure out how to pay.
Information is manipulated to control our beliefs and then actions.
In the case of "cross vs stake" the "unstated assumption" is that it is crucial to salvation and a right standing with God. This is seen to be totally false from a simple and cursory examination of scripture.
Nothing is more important than the "unabridged gospel" or "good news", by which we are saved, put right, and given a clean standing by IMPUTATION and as UNMERITED FREE GIFTS.
It is no accident that religionists (especially followers of the Watchtower) are ignorant of the "good news" according to Paul, Moses, Isaiah and Psalms.
More than half the Bible's roughly 152 references to the "good news" are by Paul alone!
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mP
The real motivation is the cross is pagan and simply a symbol of solar worship. In their own quirky kind of way the WT has tried to hide this truth of its past. The more you look the more you realise that xianity is no different from all other religions, its simply worship or admiration of nature with the sun at the center of everything just like our universe. The cross represents the four seasons, the longer arm representing summer, the short winter and the two equal arms the spring and autum. Go look at xian art and architecture the sun is everywhere, halos, even the language in the gospels. Ask any Greek what Halo means, anything starting with ell or hell* means sun. Dig further into christian language and you will realise that at the cneter of it all is solar worship.