Surprising 5 graduate degrees that don't pay off

by Scott77 29 Replies latest social current

  • Scott77
    Scott77

    5 graduate degrees that don't pay off

    By Kathryn HawkinsBankrate.com

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    5 graduate degrees that don't pay off

    5 graduate degrees that don't pay off

    In today's tough job market, many recent college graduates are enrolling in graduate programs to enhance their credentials and gain an edge with hiring managers. In some cases, the tactic may lead to lucrative job opportunities. A recent report from Georgetown University's Center on Education and the Workforce found that a graduate degree can boost an individual's earning power by more than 40 percent in some fields -- but the true value can vary wildly from industry to industry.

    In disciplines such as medicine, for instance, an advanced degree can provide a 190 percent salary increase over a pre-med-focused bachelor's degree, according to the Georgetown study. For other programs, the return on investment isn't as certain: In some cases, available job opportunities are scarce or low-paying, or employers may value relevant work experience more than another diploma.

    Particularly if you're planning to take out loans to attend graduate school, it pays to know what your realistic job prospects are, says Liz Pulliam Weston, a personal finance author and columnist for MSN Money. "A lot of schools will take your money and get you trained for jobs that don't exist," she cautions. "Take a buyer-beware attitude."

    Master of Fine Arts degrees

    Master of Fine Arts degrees

    Students can obtain Master of Fine Arts, or MFA, degrees in disciplines including studio arts, creative writing, the performing arts and art criticism. Tuition costs vary, but at New York University's Tisch School of the Arts, for instance, students can expect to pay more than $22,000 per term, plus the cost of housing, course books and other expenses.

    That investment isn't likely to pay off: The Georgetown study saw just a 3 percent boost in income potential for studio arts MFA graduates.

    Kristen Harris, owner of Portfolio Creative, a staffing agency in Columbus, Ohio, says her recruiting clients always favor candidates with relevant experience and work samples over those with graduate arts degrees. "It's hard to get that first work opportunity if you don't have that education and training, but after that, it's your portfolio and experience that speaks louder than your degree."

    Computer engineering

    Computer engineering

    Computer engineering is a booming industry for job growth. The Bureau of Labor Statistics estimates that the market for software developers will grow by 30 percent between 2010 and 2020. Computer programmer jobs are growing at a 12 percent pace, which is about average. However, in most cases, there is little benefit for job seekers who go beyond a bachelor's degree in the field.

    The Georgetown study saw just a 16 percent boost in pay for students with graduate degrees in computer engineering.

    Paul Silvio, senior vice president at Modis, a large information technology recruiting firm, confirms that his client base doesn't place a high priority on graduate education. "The vast majority of jobs in IT are hands-on, where employees are utilizing a specific technology or skill set," he says. "Candidates grow their expertise by growing their skill sets and interpersonal skills," he says, rather than pursuing further academic qualifications.

    PR, advertising and mass-media programs

    PR, advertising and mass-media programs

    The growth outlook for public relations positions is good, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. The field is expected to grow by 21 percent between 2010 and 2020. However, as with the computer engineering industry, hands-on experience is more important than graduate degrees for job seekers. "The graduate degree doesn't really get you anywhere," says Weston.

    Harris says her clients who need creative and marketing talent aren't seeking candidates with graduate degrees. "Generally, we don't get clients looking for an advanced degree unless they're looking for a higher-level strategy focus," she says.

    In that case, however, they're typically seeking applicants with a Master of Business Administration, rather than communications-focused degrees. According to the Georgetown study, employees with graduate degrees in advertising and public relations can only expect an earnings boost of 12 percent for their diploma; mass-media students might see an 11 percent increase.

    A law degree from a fourth-tier school

    A law degree from a fourth-tier

    The number of law school graduates rose by 11 percent between 1999 and 2009, according to The New York Times, yet the paper also reports that 15,000 attorney and legal staff positions were eliminated between 2008 and 2011. For law students -- especially those from bottom-ranking schools -- a high-paying job is no sure thing.

    A 2011 National Association for Law Placement survey found that, while 88 percent of 2010 law school graduates were employed, not all grads had positions in their field. Nearly 9 percent worked in "other capacities," and 11 percent worked part time. And while 18 percent of 2010 graduates were able to obtain starting salaries of around $160,000, nearly half of reporting graduates were making annual salaries that fell between $40,000 and $65,000.

    No matter the quality of the law school, the education is pricy, and most students must obtain loans to pay tuition. Near the upper end of the spectrum at San Diego's Thomas Jefferson School of Law -- where 94 percent of the student body took out loans -- students graduated with an average of more than $153,000 in student loan debt, according to U.S. News and World Report. That kind of loan will take a long time to pay off on a $50,000 salary.

    Atmospheric sciences and meteorology

    Atmospheric sciences and meteorology

    The atmospheric science field pays reasonably well. The Bureau of Labor Statistics found a median salary of $87,780 for all atmospheric scientists, including meteorologists. Median represents the midpoint pay, so half receive higher pay and half receive lower. Graduate education in the field is necessary for many research-focused positions at universities. However, government and private sector positions rarely require graduate education.

    To that end, job seekers looking for a substantial income boost by obtaining a master's degree or Ph.D. in the field will be sorely disappointed. Georgetown found a minuscule 1 percent increase in salary for employees with graduate degrees in the field. In this case, students should only pursue a graduate degree if they are truly interested in furthering their own education, rather than getting a bigger paycheck.

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  • Scott77
    Scott77

    On Computer engineering,Paul Silvio, senior vice president at Modis, a large information technology recruiting firm, confirms that his client base doesn't place a high priority on graduate education. "The vast majority of jobs in IT are hands-on, where employees are utilizing a specific technology or skill set," he says. "Candidates grow their expertise by growing their skill sets and interpersonal skills," he says, rather than pursuing further academic qualifications.
    Bankrate.com

    Yes, I agree with that. You need only to learn on the job in order to master the skill. Look at BillGates, Facebook and Google founders.

    Scottt77

  • Billy the Ex-Bethelite
    Billy the Ex-Bethelite

    "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." Benjamin Disraeli (1895) (British statesman)

    I just took an exam Monday that had a lot of stats involved. This section of the class was introduced with the quote above. I don't think I did well on this exam, so I won't consider myself an expert. However, I find details of this article to be incomplete. There are plenty of other graduate degrees that I would have expected to make that list, like political science or philosophy. But I guess they really are trying to come up with things 'surprising.' The introductory advice is good, to count the cost and benefits. But it's sketchy on actual analysis.

    The computer engineering is closest to my area, and I found their statements puzzling. "The Georgetown study saw just a 16 percent boost in pay for students with graduate degrees in computer engineering." Statistics like this can mean that one person might have gotten a 2% raise and another might have gotten a 30% raise. That's how averages work. And for the person that only got a 2% raise, they might have gotten other benefits such as extra paid vacation, a move to a better location, or other 'non-raise' benefits that aren't noted with just the statistics.

    "Paul Silvio, senior vice president at Modis, a large information technology recruiting firm, confirms that his client base doesn't place a high priority on graduate education." Okay, that's what one VP says about HIS clients. Perhaps someone with a graduate degree doesn't need his services. '"Candidates grow their expertise by growing their skill sets and interpersonal skills," he says, rather than pursuing further academic qualifications.' Well, isn't taking graduate courses a way of growing skill sets and developing social contacts outside of what may be a dead-end job? And that's often the case in technology, that if you loyally try to stay with one company, they don't necessarily aim to grow your skill set. You have to do that on your own. And often the best, or only way to get a raise is to expand your skills with some outside training and apply at some other company.

    That's my $0.02

  • Billy the Ex-Bethelite
    Billy the Ex-Bethelite

    Scott77, I'll certainly agree that there have been lots of wealthy and successful people that don't even have a BA or BS, even in high tech fields. However, they hire people that do have degrees.

    Take Watchtower Corporation for example. There's barely a high school diploma for each member of the GB, yet they hire doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc. with degrees.

  • Scott77
    Scott77

    Billy the Ex-Bethelite,

    That is an excellent analysis of the article. I appreciate your insightful contribution. I do not know why from among over 100 majors currently on offer from colleges and universities, the artilcle only focusedon those five degrees. Not sure of the reason.

    Scott77

  • Billy the Ex-Bethelite
    Billy the Ex-Bethelite

    Now that Gilead School is only taking those already in special full time service, I suppose that would qualify as a graduate degree that doesn't pay off.

  • Scott77
    Scott77

    Take Watchtower Corporation for example. There's barely a high school diploma for each member of the GB, yet they hire doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc. with degrees.
    Billy the Ex-Bethelite

    That was insightful as well. To this day, I will never undestand WTS campaign against higher education yet they take advantage of skilled people for their own selfish ends. What a great hypocrisy!

    Scott77

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    When the economy was booming, I wondered why low tier law schools have plenty of applicants. I saw a vast difference in practice. Since I majored in political science, I had contact with alumni who attended the entire spectrum of law schools. Some of the best poli sci students who would have been great lawyers could not get into any law school. Intelligence was not the factor. Super bright classmates attended lower tier schools. They simply were not taught important things.

    On the other hand, for routine daily matters that affect everyone, they were probably better prepared.

    I regret not being forced to take statistics. It was recommended but I feared for my grade. I may still take a course. Maybe the Khan Academy has one.

    When illness prevented me from practicing for a while, I thought a graduate law degree would guaratee great job search results. I could delve into an area that interested me in practice. I would be so prepared. My law school's placement office told me it might cause a negative effect. It was scary. I was so grown up that additional education would not help.

    I can understand why they would prefer someone with actual experience to a perpetual student. It shows people should take advantage of a liberal arts education while they can. Where else can studying Oriental Civilization, French, New Testament, and Philosophy increase your wages?

  • Scott77
    Scott77

    "...Where else can studying Oriental Civilization, French, New Testament, and Philosophy increase your wages?"
    Band on the Run

    Great question but please, do not discount the benefits of liberal arts. I have benefited greatly from them. Having a broader outlook is only possible by studying liberal arts. I think, famous thinkers were liberal greats.

    Scott77

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    I should have made my point more clear. A traditional liberal arts program in college increases your wages. Graduate degrees don't seem to do so. I absolutely adored my liberal arts education. I am returning to NY so hopefully I can audit courses. Law school only pays off now if you attend a top school. I came across a local for-profit school that offers paralegal degrees for only two years of college. Not one student researched the program to know the job placement rates which I assume are abysmal.

    There is so much talk of money. Science and engineering are touted as the only majors for undergrads. We need more than scientists and engineers. The Beatles and Bob Dylan were not scientists or engineers. The people who had the most impact on my life were academics. My Sanskrit prof was awesome. Studying New Testament certainly impacted my life. I studied anthropology with Margaret Mead and others. Another favorite was French literature made difficult b/c of my lack of French grammar skills.

    I would love to study English Literature and opera now.

    College was supposed to broaden our horizons. Supposedly, it was different from a tech or trade school.

    We need a diversity of talents. Sanskrit scholars serve an important function. Civilization is important. America's Founders were immersed in the classics. What is college without Latin and Greek? The older I become, the more I see the value of tradition. Science and engineering are very important. I listened to a NPR broadcast that discussed Walden Pond. Henry David Thoreau was a Renaissance man. Most Americans were skilled in several fields.

    Also, I would never give college credit for learning the basics of MS Office. It should be a noncredit course.

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