I liked this clip from Newsroom(HBO) on why America is not the greatest country... what do you think?

by dazed but not confused 24 Replies latest forum tech-support

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    We are NOT the greatest country in the world in every possible sphere which was the gist of the college girl's (and I do use girl purposively) question

    Much can be learned from other countries. Learning from other systems was one of the primary benefits of American federalism. The states could innovate with new ideas. If the ideas worked, they could be adopted by other states and the federal government. God did not create the world so American could be the greatest nation.

    If we roll around in American exceptionalism and stop being competitive b/c of this crazy idea of American exceptionalism, we sill sink even further quickly.

    No great power has ever stayed great for long. I would love to live in European democracies.

    Are you implying that to criticize this not perfect country is unpatriotic?

    It is a TV show. Yes, it is on HBO but it remains a TV show. Don't watch it if it upsets you. What did you expect from an Aaron Sorkin show? Fox News?

  • designs
    designs

    Authors Michael Lind and Collin Woodard argue that America grew under the influence of Aristocrat families with two opposing sets of values. The northern aristocrats worked with the philosophy of Noblese Oblige- those who have wealth are morally obligated to improve society, and the southern regions where the philosophy of class and inequality was a God Ordained providence.

    Historian Darren Dochuk traces the rise of the Southern Evangelical political movement as an attack on Yankee liberals and the cry of 'take back America for God' gives Barry Goldwater's warning of the GOP takeover, RINO, a prophetic tone. Segregation, assualts on women's freedom, human rights abuses, withdrawing investments in health care, infrastructure and education among others are meant to support the God ordained ruling classes.

  • Broken Promises
    Broken Promises

    Those who say America is the greatest country in the world are idiots.

  • sir82
    sir82

    Those who think any one country can be "greatest" in all aspects are idiots.

    America is great in some aspects, not so great in others.

    Which can be said of pretty much any non-third world country on the planet.

  • sabastious
    sabastious
    Those who say America is the greatest country in the world are idiots.

    There is only one reason why America is, and always will be, the greatest country in the world. That reason is actually a group of men called the Quakers. Without these timeless visionaries America would not exist as it does today and therefore the people of America would not exist either. The foundation they laid down for us is so strong that it will never cease to exist. They imbue the spirit of America's population. We will always have the best vision and the rest of the world will always glean off of our splendor. There will be times of haziness however. Right now the entire globe is in chaos and America has taken a few sucker punches and is badly bruised, but she is not so far gone as to lose the ability to pull out of this nose dive. We will prevail because of the foundations that were laid down before us.

    This clip was very powerful and Daniels did an incredible acting job. I understand the frustration with so many on the Right touting the line "American Exceptionalism" when clearly we are not the top dog anymore in many ways that we used to be. But, the American spirit is also showcased by Daniels in the clip and he makes mention to the Quakers more than once. He, and the woman with the sign in the audience, cannot deny the foundations the "revered men" set down, even in a time when they seem to be ignored by the general populace. The spirit of America lays quiet right now, but when it roars all will remember why the line into this country is so damn long.

    -Sab

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    Sab,

    I don't agree with your statement. In my spare time, I read a lot of American history and biographies. The Quakers certainly were the moral conscience of this country and exerted a profound influence on Pennsylvania. They always had minority status. It is clear that the New England Puritans and the Church of England/Episcopal were the primary denominations. We still have Puritan ideals of hard work and commitment. I believe the American character was forged by several factors. First, it took much courage to settle a wilderness. Ties with Engalnd remained strong but we were physically detached. England could not be bothered very much with America until they wanted to tax us. Society still had to function so, in great contrast to Ireland, Americans assumed they were English citizens, not subjects. Our colonial legislatures floruished. In practical terms, Americans governed America for a long time. Second, we had vast natural resources. The soil was so good, unlike the one crop depleted European soil. No one in America was poor, compared to the wretches in England and Europe. Third, since we viewed ourselves as English citizens, we took the rights in the British constitution very seriously. Third, we became a nation of immigrants from all over the world. The closed British/Dutch presence was disrupted by aliens. Altho a British/Dutch elite still exists, esp. in NY and Boston, we integrated practices and cultures from around the world.

    Alexis de Tocqueville, a Frenchman touring America soon after the Revolution (Rebellion) described an American character that continues to this day. One meets a lot of Europeans doing business and touring Manhattan. They hate the American character but seem almost kooky in their love for regular Americans and our culture.

    I used to attend Quaker meetings. Both in Britain and America they spearheaded the abolitionist movement. I saw them first hand in the civil rights and antiwar movements. They were more responsible than most. Their ethical development is impressive. They have not made much of an impact on our foreign policy, especially our wars. I don't know whether this is good or bad.

    In sum, I feel they are the conscience of America, calling us to loftier ideals. Their Christianity is so compelling. They are our prophets. When I visited Occupy, they stood out b/c they had a commanding knowledge of the politcal process. They were not radical chic for the moment. They certainly had an influence but I don't think it was ever commanding or central.

  • james_woods
    james_woods

    Wasn't Nixon a Quaker?

  • sabastious
    sabastious

    Band, I don't understand where you disagree specifically. It sounds like you feel at least similarly to me about the Quaker's influence on our society. I don't give credit to the Quaker ideology as much as I give credit to the men who created it. Their inspiration paved the way for future leaders like Abraham Lincoln and all of the American greats. We need more people like the ones that founded this country right now to stand up and take back the country. The reason for America's woes is because we lost our ability to identify the kind of leadership that created the spirit of American Exceptionalism in the first place. Our problem is almost 100% political.

    -Sab

  • Terry
    Terry

    I watch Newsroom and love it--even though I know the arguments are often half-spurious although wonderfully written.

    Here is the first thought I had after that "America is not the greatest country" speech....

    Okay--name the country that IS!

    Unless you do, the argument is hollow.

    Making the Good an enemy of the Perfect is not a useful dichotomy.

  • mrsjones5
    mrsjones5

    My dad can beat up your dad!

    Just channeling how juvenile some of ths is.

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