Anonymous Message to Watchtower

by jwleaks 343 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

• 

  cedars

  jamesmahon

  Ok, parachute out of the discussion if you want. Let it be noted that, despite my comprehensive analysis of your argumentation, you have failed to supply one good reason why my reasoning is wrong.

  "You think it is ok to destroy someone's life if it means a child will be protected."

  No, I think it is regrettable but necessary for one person to go through the stress of being falsely accused BY THE WATCH TOWER SOCIETY if it means potentially THOUSANDS of children not being raped, molested and otherwise abused by sick paedos.

  "You think that accusations made to elders mean that a person should be named not only to the congregation but to anyone with the internet."

  And what exactly is the congregation going to do about it? Remember they're the ones who were complicit in hiding the information in the first place! Or do you still believe the congregation has a role to play in meting out divine justice? I am more concerned with the persons being named to the authorities, and there is far greater chance of this happening if the list is leaked than if it remains idle on a bethel computer.

  If the NSPCC say there is nothing to worry about and it is a good idea then fine.

  The NSPCC will not say anything that will get them in trouble, such as "WE SUPPORT ANONYMOUS"!! Can't you see that?

  Fine jamesmahon off you go, but let it not be said that I didn't answer your assertions. It's a shame you can't dignify my comments with a full response if you care so deeply about this subject, but that's your choice.

  Cedars
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  King Solomon

  Cedars,

  Are you going to argue with Solomon? ;)

  I'm saying that if you want to present the evidence for the case to be tried in the court of public opinion, fine. Break the law to hack systems, taint the evidence, and grant immunity to the guilty in the process.

  But don't expect this action to force actual real-live justice (eg the Condi case, with a valid verdict and actual $$$$ awarded). The court of public opinion cannot convict molesters of a felony, send them to prison, put them on Megan's Law website, allow others to sue in civil court for damages, etc. That applies not only to the individual molester, but to the Society as well.

  In fact, there have been some companies that are suspected of exposing incriminating evidence by setting up their own self-inflicted "Anon attack", just to dispose of the evidence (it beats shredding, as they can always claim Anon tampered with the evidence and added names, etc). An Anon attack gives them the best of both worlds: plausible deniability AND claiming to be a victim... Maybe you want to sanitize the WTS' dirty laundry for them?
• 

  cedars

  jamesmahon

  It seems you're not done yet!

  Cedars. If it is not made public the police can investigate no? Or do you just want kangaroo justice based upon investigations by elders? If you are not arguing that can you explain what you mean. And there can be no criminal conviction in either this country or the US unless jurys get to see evidence from the victim and usually the accusers can be cross examined. Can you imagine being convicted based upon an investigation by elders? Sheesh.

  And do we know whether victims names are being released? We should at least be pressing anonymous for that not to happen surely.

  If the information on that database could be switched directly between Brooklyn and, say, interpol HQ or the Crown Prosecution Service, that would be WONDERFUL. I am not the one orchestrating the leak, so it's not up to me. I would certainly prefer the information to reach the authorities VIA the media/internet than not at all, which seems to be your preference.

  As regards compliance of victims - like I said, I'm no legal expert. However, I'm sure it's more complicated than to say someone can't be convicted without COMPLETE vocal cooperation from a surviving victim. In any case, I would still rather give the prosecutors a chance.

  Finally, how can anything happen if names aren't released?

  Cedars
• 

  Witness My Fury

  I also would NOT want that list put into into the public domain or obtained by Anonymous. I am however all for them punishing the WTS for their crap policies on child abuse, even if that involves hacking their web servers and changing content to reflect this message etc.

  Just leave that list alone FFS! That is a timebomb waiting to explode. We had this disclosure nonsense in the UK a few years ago run by a national tabloid paper and the results were terrible. A Pediatrition was attacked by a mob too thick to know the meaning of the word. I am 99.99% certain that not ALL the names on that list are guilty of child abuse and as this is just about the worst thing a person can be ever accused of there has to be thought given to the innocent.

  If the list was of CONVICTED pedophiles, then I would have very few qualms about it. ..... But even then (yes, as the WTS has occaisonally reasoned itself) there are instances of young men having sex with underage girls (eg M19 F15) in which he ends up on a sex offenders register with little distinction given regarding the ages involved.

  So whilst I welcome Anonymous' interest and possible action, they really need to think very carefully about what they hope to achieve here.
• 

  cedars

  King Solomon - you have super-imposed your assertions regarding the "court of public opinion" over my own.

  Whatever form the list is leaked in, it will and MUST be viewed as a list of allegations and not a final conviction. Those on the list, though undoubtedly devestated and understandably appalled, will have the opportunity to clear their name if prosecutions are brought forward. In any case, their issue will be with the Society for holding the information in the first place, and not so much with those who leaked it.

  I view the leaking of the list as a catalyst for the proper legal process, whereas jamesmahon (and apparently you) would rather these people continued unchecked with their identities concealed.

  Cedars
• 

  King Solomon

  Cedars,

  You are naive.... Well intentioned, but very naive.

  I feel your frustration, really. But this is not the way criminal justice works, it just isn't.

  Any defense lawyer fresh out of law school would be all over the issue of the source of the evidence, and Anon's name comes up? The same name that has resulted in many other dismissals before trial, that has thumbed their noses at FBI? Who's members are being prosecuted by the Justice Depts Feder prosecutors? The group who's name means not just ZERO credibiltiy, but LESS THAN ZERO?

  You REALLY need to get legal advice....
• 

  cedars

  You REALLY need to get legal advice....

  Why do I need to get legal advice? If anyone needs advice at the moment, it's the Society and the paedos on their list. Anonymous is coming for them.

  Cedars
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  Witness My Fury

  Cedars calm down and shut up, seriously...
• 

  cedars

  Witness My Fury

  "Cedars calm down and shut up, seriously..."

  Ooooh now I'm being told to shut up? Why, am I in breach of Society confidentiality?!

  Do I need to sleep with one eye open?! lol

  Cedars
• 

  King Solomon

  Lets just say that someone's Ex-JW mindset ("I'm right, it's you OTHER guys who are all wet") is showing... The delusional intoxication of moral certainty.

  Ah well, as the old saying goes, you can lead a horse to water... (y'all know the rest)