UN vs Watchtower Society

by joelbear 39 Replies latest jw friends

  • jerome
    jerome

    Question to the active jws on this site.

    Do you actually reaad the threads that contain questions other than doctrinal issues?

    It appears as if you skin through peoples post and look for questions that are easy to anwser.

    ---------------------

    People asked you a very relevant question regarding your changing your doctrine regarding not readind apostate literature regarding your organisations history and you neglected it but only anwsered the doctrinal issue?

    Do you really think that apostates are liars as the wt says?

    I would really like to know.

    The Bible is a two edged sword wield it for evil and it you may get hurt.

  • joelbear
    joelbear

    NYT

    Jesus said the meek would inherit the earth.

    One thing you and most witnesses are not is meek.

    Joel

  • joelbear
    joelbear

    meek Pronunciation Key (mk)
    adj. meek·er, meek·est
    Showing patience and humility; gentle.
    Easily imposed on; submissive.

    Does this definition fit any of our witness pals here at JW.com?

    How many Jehovah's Witnesses in your life fit this description?

    Joel

    I'm very submissive, so the earth is MINE ALL MINE, moo hoo ha ha ha.

  • jerome
    jerome

    I have some other questions:

    1) Do you think that not reading apostate literature is a form of information controll? For tis question I do not need an explaniation of what is an apostate orif jesus said that you should not talk to them or read their literature, what I want to know is if you think that keepingpeople away frm certain sources of information is amethod of information controll.

    2) Do you think that the watchtower is in a position to have all their loyal followers believe anything that they say without question?

    3) Do you believe that the opinion of no man is published in the watchtower or any other related publications? Meaning that everything quoted would have the backing of Jehovah. Please elabourate on this question.

    4) Are you using spritual warfare on anyone on this board?

    5) Would you let any of your children have a blood transfusion? Or would you let them use any blood fractions that are not aproved by the WBTS?

    6) Do you intntenionally ignore non doctrinal questions presented in posts?

    7) How do you feel about conversing with apostates?

    8) Do you believe that the members of the governing body believe all the teachings which they inforce?

    9) Do you believe that you are objective? Meaning that you can examin both sides of a story and then come to the most sensible conclusion. Do you think that anyone who has come to the conclusion that the WTBS is most certainly not from God has been objective? [This person would have looked through your doctrines past and present, hypocrisy, they subjection to authority, the way your organisation discusses the other churches of the world and most importantly done a great deal of research on the history of the WTBS ]

    10) What do you think is the most important question that I have presented and why?

    I really dont need long anwsers to these questions so could you please make them as short as possible? This thread is about the UN so if possible relate any of these issues to the desgusting that causes desolation if possible

    These issues can all be UN related but I would like both a personal view and a view that supports the theme of the thread

    thanks...

    The Bible is a two edged sword wield it for evil and it you may get hurt.

  • YoYoMama
    YoYoMama

    My Answers:

    1. yes.
    2. tricky question. yes and no. Depends how you question.
    3. The literature is based on the scriptures so we must compare the information with those scriptures.
    4. yes.
    5. no.
    6. sometimes.
    7. makes my faith strong.
    8. yes.
    9. yes to the first question, no to the second question.
    10. question 9, it depends on an individuals qualities if he will humble himself in front of God and accept his ways of doing things.

  • Gozz
    Gozz

    Mine field,

    On whose authority do you claim that? And please don't tell me the WT, or else I'll puke. (figuratively, of course).
    ******Why would you not recognize the aouthority of the Society being currently used to asseble the nucleus of the coming peaceful new world? For what reason? Evidently, the Society does more quality reaserach than you do, United Nations Library or not; it is just as the Congregator said, to the making of many books there is no end. You will not notice events you have decided to be blind too. There's none so blind, Minefield, as those who would simply not see.

    And why couldn't the UN proclaim certain years to be good years? As far as I'm concerned, they've did a lot more to help the world than JW's ever did. When's the last time JW's helped with poor people? With children? With non-JW's, as a whole? Without striving to convert them? Read your Awake!, Gozz. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at all the things the UN has done in recent years.
    *******To the proclamation of years of peace and plenty there shall be no end. There can be no end, yet there will be, for real hope exists, Utopia lies ahead, and it will not be at the hands of the disgusting thing that ultimately causes desolation. Witnesses are helping poor people. Contrary to what obtains elsewhere, God's people are humble and lowly, living life at near the poverty line in the third world. Their brothers in more affluent lands continue to support them in the finest wayu possible: spiritually. Happy, indeed, are those cosncious of their spiritual needs. The United Nations work what is good, but the failure of that human organization lies in the diversion they create in making people look toward the real hope for peace. And what have you with conversion? Imagine the good work being done all over! It cannot be calculated in the currencies of this hateful world. Inmates in prisons being helped (see a recent Awake! issue, at no cost to tax-payers, reasearches being financed for the furtherance of good health - even you might benefit, I wish you good health though,the help provided to the deprssed, the diversion from daily stress, and the steady stream of healthful spiritual food! You have to admit it, this very community exists at the magnanimity of the Witnesses. Just think about it! The many people you have met here.

    Of course, the WT wrote all that just to further their own interests, but I think they have made many excellent points.
    ***the Society has indeed made excellent points, thank for for your kind, and gracious admission. Some good can indeed come out of Nazareth.

    And what's this about me belonging to the Watchman Class? What the heck are you talking about? I was never baptized. I don't belong to any self-righteous cult. And if, by Watchman, you mean a group that carefully analyzes the facts before screaming bloody murder (figuratively) your little name is completely off the wall.
    ***This is a misinterpretation. And I am glad you do not claim to be in the Watchman Class. You counsel me to wake up, and keep my senses. It is clear that a responsible Watchman will not sleep, nay, slumber. He must remain Awake! to sound the alarm at favourable and unfavourable times. You have not been doing that, have you? So, rightly, you are not the Watchman. A careful reading of the post you refer to tells clearly who the Watchman is. You must not despise the Watchman, for 'he' serves faithfully, alert in his senses, and sounding alarm as he sees. Last week's Book Study makes that abundantly clear. Also, learn not to despise little things.

    You are the one who needs to be awaken from spiritual slumber.
    We could say that about each other all day. So why not substantiate ourselves with arguments and hard facts instead?
    ***I recant. What hard facts do you require, then? The words are abundantly clear, and have no ambiguous interpretation, and even then, interpretations belong, not to man. Or do you not agree?
  • mindfield
    mindfield

    Oh, Gozz...

    Why would you not recognize the aouthority of the Society being currently used to asseble the nucleus of the coming peaceful new world?
    I have trouble putting my trust in an organization that "proved" without any doubt, with help from physicians, scientists, doctors and the like that 1)Aluminum will kill you, 2)Organ transplants are evil, 3)etc. I don't know... it's a fault of mine, I guess. My trust doesn't just go to these people. My bad.

    help provided to the deprssed, the diversion from daily stress, and the steady stream of healthful spiritual food!
    Like what? The current remedy for stress is going out more in the service. Is that truly a remedy? Diversion from daily stress? Hah. If you believe in it strong enough, streaking can also be a diversion from daily stress. It's all a matter of convincing oneself. And I won't even mention the healthful spiritual food. Last time I ate any, it sure was good, but now, it's "old food", and it's rottening in my stomach as we speak. You?

    Also, learn not to despise little things.
    How do you define "little"? Is the child molestation issue "little" or big? How about the change in the blood issue that killed who knows how many? You decide.
  • JT
    JT

    NY asked :

    so are you saying the UN is backed by God?

    @@@@@@@

    so are you saying the (WT) is backed by God?

  • JT
    JT

    Do you actually reaad the threads that contain questions other than doctrinal issues?

    It appears as if you skin through peoples post and look for questions that are easy to anwser.

    @@@@@@@@@@

    interesting post i think many do and the reason is that the wt says that ALL THEIR DOGMAS ARE BACKED UP BY THE BIBLE

    and like you mentioned they are easy to answer in showing that the wt claims of being bible based on its dogmas are simply not true

    it is very easy to prove that wt dogmas are not backed up by the bible merely by asking Questions that the avg jw is FORBIDDEN TO ASK UNDER PENLTY OF DEATH ( yes they tell jw that god will kill you for questioning his mouthpc)

  • jerome
    jerome

    This question is open to all active e witnesses on this board.

    PLEASE READ THE ENTIRE THREAD.

    Could I ask you something about #8 I think you might fint it very interesting.

    You say that you think that GB believes everything that it inforces, this confuses me I will try to explain to you why for the following example.

    This is a non doctrinal question so that means that you will have to think, is that ok?

    No offence but it is just unfair that you have people to think for you and you could go into your books (reasoning, insight etc...) and get a ready made anwser while the rest of us have to use our noodle to come up with a reasonable one.

    Anyway here it is.

    -----------------------

    If you believed something wouldent you vote in its favor?

    To me that makes sense because why then would you show your approval of somthing when your conscience does not allow you to?

    I ask that because the GB members rearly, as far as I know make unanimous decisions about any doctrinal issues, they actually vote and a 2/3 majority decides the result as you probaly know.

    So imagin this:

    Your daughter was born prematurely, and she needed a blood component so that she could LIVE. But there is a problem, the watchtower dident aprove of that particular blood component. The wordly doctors that are trying to save your daughters life say there is no alternative, a witness doctor is consulted immediately and he agrees also with the worldlys that there is no alternative. There is a crissis of conscience. You have this crisis because of something that you know.

    Heres what you know.

    The vote on accepting this blood component went 4 infavor of its acceptance and 8 against. Since a three thirds majority is required it is passed on to the r&f that the component cannot be accepted because Jehovah does not approve. They keep their vote secret but it got to you through the grape vine.
    You heard it first from apostates whom you dident believe at first but then it was confirmed from one of your brothers in a high position (he is a former bethleite). The apostates were proven to be right after all. But you still don't trust them, you still view them as un Godly and deceptive.

    Anyway this vote means that 4 of the members of the GB would let the child accept the component but the others dident think that God would aprove. Since the people that they have to do their research for them cant seem to come to an agreement either. They have people to do research for them becase they are now to old and feeble to do any indepth study of the matter. They can bearly open their bibles without help, farless do any real research. Some are even suffering wih the mental illnesses associated with their age. Only the youngest of the group are in their early 70's.

    You also know that the legal department was concerned about potential suits if the doctrine were to be changed in favour of its acceptance, these suits could cause substantial loss in revnue compounding the econimic slowdown and could even open the door to other suits involvig similar cases if they were to lose the case.
    The word around bethel is that this factor has seriously infulenced the decision 4 of the GB members. So tis means that money played a role in the decision to keep and inforce this doctrine not only Gods will.

    If these tree members were to vote in favour of the acceptance of the blood component then the doctrine would have to be changed.

    The vote would now be 8 for its acceptanc and 4 against.

    You as a Jehovahs Witness are supposed to be submissive to God and to authority but not to only a mans whims. psalm 118:8

    Since there dosent seem to be any specific bible law against the acceptance of this blood component, (this conclusion was determined through much examining of the scriptures and still having no real biblicall support) it would be by definition the opinion of a man.

    Because God dosent change and his word does not contradict itself it would be blasphm to suggest that Jehovah could not make up his mind.

    A yes versus a no as in this case (as in yes you do accept no you dont) is a contradiction, therefore a reasonably minded person can conclude that the opinion does not originate from Jehovah.

    Now what would you do, neglect your natural instinct and let you own daughter suffer and die and hope to see her in the new order that is coming soon ( soon was soon for the last 120 years !)
    or would you do what your instincs suggests, that is to stop tyour precious daughter from suffering and give her a chance to live, that is follow your heart.

    I say your heart because there seems to be no distinction between blood components in the bible so you would be putting the life of your daughter in a mans hands rather than the hands of Jehovah. You believe that these men have the approval of God but this dosent seem to have his approval beause if it did he would have let all of the members of the GB to come to the same conclusion that the component is NOT ACCEPTABLE. No new light seems to be comming.

    Since your main goal in life is serve Jehovah and to do his will then what would your decision be.

    Whose will would you follow?

    Would you put your own life above your daughter by allowing your daughter to accept the component and then in effect sacrifice a great deal of your present life by being shunned by all your friends and family who donot know the full details of your situation but only care that you are breaking what they think are Jehovahs laws. You tried to explain it but they would only care about where you got this info about the GB from, you can except no sympthy from them in your time of need. Many of them wouldent even visit the hospital.

    Or would you think that it is best to follow the advise of these men even thought you know that some of them would let their own great grand daughter accept the component.

    Where youl your conscience lead you, what decision woul you make?

    The Bible is a two edged sword wield it for evil and it you may get hurt.

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit