The Story of a Modern Famine - 1984 Ethiopia

by jgnat 47 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    For MyElaine/Michelle:

    "To what can I compare this generation? They are like children sitting in the marketplaces and calling out to others: We played the flute for you, and you did not dance; we sang a dirge, and you did not mourn.' (Matthew 11:16-17)

    Regarding worldview and participation in the community, I would have responded differently. I would say that worldview governs our actions. By our actions, therefore, we also have a sense of a person's worldview. It is obvious that you consider me in need of repair, and this is no doubt due to your worldview. Do you see most people as broken?

    I have a 72 hour kit, by the way. A full lamp and a full heart is prepared for both disaster and for joy. Remember that the wise virgins slept, secure.

    As an aside, have you ever talked with a person where their eyes did not match their smile, or their professed love did not match their actions? I think this is one of the sinister aspects of the Caleb video, where his parents out of expressed love, put glum burdens on that little soul. It's creepy. I feel that way about some of your posts, invariably signed off with love and a heart. The heart does not match the sentiment.

  • dgp
    dgp

    My opinion is that the results of criminal actions are not proof of the existence or non-existence of God.

    Just for the sake of clarity, I don't believe there is a God. The argument would need to be that God sees evil, yet he doesn't do anything about it. It expects God to be some kind of Jupiter Tonans who would send his lightning to punish the disobedient or the evil. I don't buy this, just as I don't think the Lord responds to your prayers.

    I think expecting God to act, in one way or another, are the sides of the same coin.

    I understand JGNat's general point. But, as an aside, I would say that genocidal Mengistu should be considered the major cause of that famine. Let us not take some of the responsibility away from Mengistu and blame it on God instead (I'm not saying JGNat said that).

    The famine was the result of natural causes, first, but, above all, the result of the man-made, entirely avoidable disaster of planned economy. We should not blame God for it even if it existed; it's the "brainchild" of men. Just think of Venezuela, the owner of the largest oil reserves in the world, that is now importing oil products from the United States. Some very stupid things had to happen for Venezuela to become an importer of oil products.

    It would have been great if Mengistu had been fulminated by a lightning at that time. But I think human action would be better: he is said to live a luxurious life in Zimbabwe. Mugabe should tell us why he protects that criminal.

    You guys would all enjoy Ryszard Kapuscinki's "The Emperor".

    ( http://www.amazon.com/The-Emperor-Ryszard-Kapuscinski/dp/0679722033/ref=la_B000AQ4HEY_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1342996774&sr=1-2 ).

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    Another great recommendation; thank you, dgp. I like your international perspective. From that book's review:

    ...humorous, frightening, sad, groteque—of a man living amidst nearly unimaginable pomp and luxury while his people teetered netween hunger and starvation...

    I like also how you zeroed in on the villain of the tale, Mengistu. Would our world be a better place if we stopped sheltering the bullies?

  • dgp
    dgp

    I think so :-).

    After you read the book, it would be interesting to talk about "the Minister of the Pen", or whatever name he is given in English.

  • myelaine
    myelaine

    dear Janet...

    you said: "Regarding worldview and participation in the community, I would have responded differently. I would say that worldview governs our actions. By our actions, therefore, we also have a sense of a person's worldview. It is obvious that you consider me in need of repair, and this is no doubt due to your worldview. Do you see most people as broken?"...

    I believe we are all sinners in need of repair. I also believe that some are in need of repair more than others...those in other closed countries who haven't heard the gospel and may not hear it before their passing will be given salvation. Those who are born and raised in countries where the gospel message is proclaimed, but who willfully reject it, are in need of more repair...they have neglected a great salvation and that is a move AGAINST themselves because then satan steps in to blind their minds/hearts completely...2 corinthians 4:3-6.

    I asked if you were worried about being lukewarm...I mentioned that scripture because I haven't seen any support from you on this forum towards those called to be evangelical who are fundimentalists...you have actually tried to shush them so to speak by poo pooing their method...in a way, drawing attention away from the message to bring the focus onto your...less critical "lukewarm" view. Does your worldview encompass an understanding of the ethos and pathos of God and His "stake" in humanity? Do you understand that He has asked AND enabled christians to be His hands and feet to mankind?

    I'd like to bring your attention to ezekiel 3:17-18: "Son of man, I have made you a watchman for the house of Israel; therefore hear a word from My mouth, and give them warning from Me: When I say to the wicked, ‘You shall surely die,’ and you give him no warning, nor speak to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life, that same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood I will require at your hand."

    ALSO acts 20:26-31, 33-35: "Therefore I testify to you this day that I am innocent of the blood of all men. For I have not shunned to declare to you the whole counsel of God. Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves. Therefore watch, and remember that for three years I did not cease to warn everyone night and day with tears... I have coveted no one’s silver or gold or apparel. Yes, you yourselves know that these hands have provided for my necessities, and for those who were with me. I have shown you in every way, by laboring like this, that you must support the weak. And remember the words of the Lord Jesus, that He said, ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive." ...

    Now, I have no doubt that you don't see any love in the message that I have given...that is because it is a form of rebuke to you for being lukewarm...but, some would find food for thought and action in the words and ways of God...in revelation 3:16 Jesus is in essence saying that you are no longer "in" Him so, He spews you out... Because you say, ‘I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing’—and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked— I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent. Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me.... “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”’”

    love michelle

  • myelaine
    myelaine

    dear dgp...

    you said: "The argument would need to be that God sees evil, yet he doesn't do anything about it. It expects God to be some kind of Jupiter Tonans who would send his lightning to punish the disobedient or the evil. I don't buy this, just as I don't think the Lord responds to your prayers."...

    "When I shut up heaven and there is no rain, or command the locusts to devour the land, or send pestilence among My people, if My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land..." 2 chronicles 7:13-14...

    ...this scripture doesn't suggest punishment for disobedience so much as God withdrawing His divine protection and blessing over the land and the people...which, when restored because of an act of the people...results in healing.

    love michelle

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    I am familiar with the bible MyElaine/Michelle. As a fellow defective, where did you get the idea that you could diagnose my failing?

    Oh, I see. Some animals are more equal than others. So egalitarian of you.

    I'm not lukewarm. I'm red-hot. Like clockwork. Just ask my husband.

  • still thinking
    still thinking

    Interesting jgnat..marking to read properly later

  • dgp
    dgp

    Myelaine:

    ...this scripture doesn't suggest punishment for disobedience so much as God withdrawing His divine protection and blessing over the land and the people...which, when restored because of an act of the people...results in healing.

    It's your opinion and it deserves respect. However, I find that this would suggest that bad things don't happen to good people. And that is not true.

  • myelaine
    myelaine

    dear Janet...

    you said: "I am familiar with the bible MyElaine/Michelle. As a fellow defective, where did you get the idea that you could diagnose my failing?"...

    well actually, it is a working of the Holy Spirit...you don't seem to be overly concerned with the urgency the times demand, (much like OT israel and the jewish population in jerusalem living around 70AD)...christians are told to redeem the time left...and there will be great tribulation...and unless the times were shortened , no flesh would be saved. matthew 24:21-22. In any other real life job that would be a failure to respond to your duty. The fact that Jesus has commanded His disciples to go into all the world and teach these things as the whole counsel of God should invoke a greater response BECAUSE failure to respond has eternal consequences, for you and any who may have been positioned to hear the message.

    Anyway...you have read and know the bible but it is an entirely different perspective to look at mankind from Gods perspective. the law is a display of His attitude (ethos)...the prophets are a display of His attributes (pathos)...if you look at things from His perspective (through a working of the Holy Spirit) your failings ARE laid bare...by God.

    That's the WAY to test the "spirits"...yours, mine AND ours...matthew 7:12

    love michelle

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