Reading In Search of Christian Freedom will help you with a defense when the ish hits the fan. However, you will always lose against the Slave class. If you find yourself in a sticky situation just claim that you belief in Jehovah's Organization and that you have faith in the Faithful and Discreet Slave, its your get out of aposta-jail card.
Crisis of Conscience, Apostacy and the Antichrist
by konceptual99 30 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Fernando
You could despair of your loss of faith in the "good news" according to Paul, and see what happens...
(More than half the NWT's roughly 152 references to the "good news" are by Paul. It is no accident that the Pharisees and Sanhedrin are ignorant of the "good news" according to Paul, Moses, Isaiah and Psalms... which is in part a message of Jesus' legal victory over religion...)
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wasblind
Acts 1:8 " You will be witnesses of me ( Jesus )
Acts 10: 39 " and we ARE witnesses of all the things he did both in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalm: But they did away with him by hanginig him on the torture stake"
Question: Unlike the Apostles , what did any " Jehovah's Witness " see Jehovah do ????
Acts 11: 26 " and it was first in Antioch that the disciples were by divine providence called Christians "
By the AntiCHRIST Rutherford the sheep are called Jehovah's Witness, Instead of CHRISTIANS
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Indian Larry
Konceptual99 for what it is worth, my thought is that the antichrist is a person or group that denys Jesus Christ. By that definition neither Peter Gregory (who R.Franze had dinner with) or Ray Franz would be considered anti-Christ. It is quite the opposite as a matter of fact. It is because Ray was actually concerned with following Christ's teachings that he ended up in trouble.
Look at some of the definitions you gave for anti-christ and think about how they might apply to the organization:
the heeding of the “counterfeit words” of false teachers and “misleading inspired utterances”
Who is more the false teacher? The organization teaches many things that are certainly not true. For example that Jerusalem fell in 607BCE, that is not true. That they fortold that Jesus would return in 1914, they did not fortell that. That they are God's sole channel of communication to all of mankind, what do you think? That only Jehovah's Witnesses will be saved at armageddon. The bible clearly says that we are not to judge. Period. That privelege belongs to Christ alone. How dare they be so presumptous as to say that. They also teach that only baptized witnesses have the "unrestricted" privelege of prayer. Again, it is Jehovah that hears prayer and it is up to him (not 7 imperfect men in Brooklyn NY) to decide who's prayers he hears. That is a pretty big claim to make, that you have to be baptised and follow the FDS (which in reality means follow the 7 men in Brooklyn) to have unrestricted privelege of prayer.
Apostates often seek to make others their followers.
Did Ray Franz seek to make others his followers? No. If you read his other book In Search of Christian Freedom you will see this clearly. He did not in any way shape or form try to start his own religion or even his own church. Neither did he join any other church organization. Jehovah does not need a "earthly organization" that is simply a fallacy that the society has repeated so many times that is sounds like the truth. The head of God's organization today is Jesus Christ. That is all. I know that is probably hard to understand, and frankly it will take a while to wrap your head around it.
Are there true apostates as defined by the bible? Yes, there are. According to the scriptures an apostate would be a person who denies Jesus Christ. There are apostates that post here on this board (a lot of them) that does not mean that every XJW is an apostate. In my personal opinion it does not even mean that someone that the bible defines as apostate is nessesarily a bad person. For many XJW's the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society ruined all religion for them period. It is certainly understandable that this happens.
For most JW's the organization and God are so intertwined that when you realize the organization is not true and you have been lied to (in my case) your whole life, the most natural course is to turn away not only from the org but from God as well. I did that myself for awhile, then I realized that just because imperfect men are wrong does not nessessarily mean that God does not exist.
For me the main thing that brought me back to the scriptures was a empty feeling in my soul. However I do not want to believe just because I want to believe. I looked at other religions, even Buddism but to me Christianity is the only one that has the feel of truth to it. Then I read In Search of Christian Freedom. It is an excellent book, in my opinion much much better than Crisis of Conscience. It helped me more to see what is really the good news of Christ Jesus.
As far as your family. My reccomendation is do not say anything, do not bring up any questions, steer clear of the elders. Look up previous threads on this site on how to successfully fade. Realize that you were/are part of a high control group, some would say mind control group and to a certain extent I believe that is true. Once you start to see the truth you will want to tell everyone, but remember they are still under the "spell" of the organization and they will look at you as an apostate for even hinting that the Governing Body can make a mistake.
You might approach it as though you are stumbled. Tell your wife that you have learned some things that bother you and you need to work it out in your own head. Tell her about the Candice Conti case, about the org joining the United Nations, tell here about Malawi and Mexico. But do it in a very very very very very slow manner. Drop out one small hint and leave it alone for a week or two. DO NOT OVERLOAD her or she will in all likelyhood come close to a mental breakdown. If you let out a little at a time and NEVER tell her what to think, don't try to stop her from going to the hall. Just ask questions.
Remember this, a question mark is a little hook. Use questions to get her to think for herself. Rather than accuse the organization of covering up pedophiles you might try something like this: " Honey, I stumbled across the transcripts of this case about an elder who was abusing young boys, he started before he was even a ministerial servant and abused young boys for years. How or why would the holy spirit appoint him as an elder if he was abusing young boys? Do you think Jehovah did that for a reason dear?"
Also if you have children you need to talk with her about the blood issue. Ask her what fractions that she feels should be allowed. Then ask something like "Why are we allowed to take someone elses blood that has been collected and stored but we can use our own?" or "Honey, I just don't understand the societies stand on the blood can you explain to me what scripture says which fractions are okay?"
Another tact would be to ask her to explain why the generation of 1914 is now overlapping. Most witnesses really don't understand this. They have a reflex to basically bury their head in the sand and put thier faith in the GB. That is wrong, but that is the way it is. By asking the right questions, you will get her to think. If you are missing meetings tell her if she can explain to you using the bible for instance why the generations "overlap" you will go for two weeks. Or tell her if she can make sense out of the blood issue you will go for a month. List out five questions on each topic and tell her if she can answer them you will keep attending. She won't want to look up the answers because in her heart she knows what she finds will prove her whole worldview to be wrong. It is scary. Don't lose your wife and family over these questions. Move slowely and others will let you out but do not cause confrontations, it is just not worth it. Never ever say you don't believe in the FDS. If that comes up just say you don't UNDERSTAND how Jehovah could appoint them and then they join the UN, or advocate blood use,(I personally have no problem with blood use) or protect pedophiles, etc.
Use sites that look up JW News and start a folder collecting news articles DIRECTLY from the source. She will probably be much more open to viewing info from newspapers or tv then from a site like this.
Anyway, whatever you do remember that the GB is not God and they do not represent him. You don't have to give up on your spirituality just because people who say they are spiritual are liers. I reccomend listening to podcasts by some Christian Apologists to strenghten your faith if you want to. I personally like Ravi Zaccharius, William Lane Craig and others along that line as they are not preachy but do build me up.
Good luck. : )
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bennyk
Yet, when the shoe is on the other foot...
The Watch Tower Society also other things to say about "antichrists". When defending the Organisation against the accusations of the Greek Orthodox Church the Watchtower stated: "What does the Bible say of 'antichrist'? At 1 John 2:22 it states: 'Who is the liar if it is not the one that denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one that denies the Father and the Son.' Thus, the plain fact of God's inspired Word is that an antichrist does not accept Jesus. But Jehovah's Witnesses do! ... So anyone who says that Jehovah's Witnesses are 'antichrist' either is badly misinformed, is blinded by prejudice, or has evil motive." (Watchtower, 01. December 1986, pp.5-6)
Clearly, the Watch Tower Society likes having it both ways...
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wasblind
... So anyone who says that Jehovah's Witnesses are 'antichrist' either is badly misinformed, is blinded by prejudice, or has evil motive." (Watchtower, 01. December 1986, pp.5-6)____BennyK
Thank you for that post BennyK
Now we can show where we get our " Misinformation , predjudice, and evil motive " from
"ANTICHRIST : Antichrist means against or instead of Christ"______Reasoning from the scriptures book page 32
" Anyone who publicly witnesses about Jehovah is usually identified as belonging to the one group____Jehohvah's witnesses_______Reasoning from the Scriptures book page 199
" If someone says : Christians are supposed to be witnesses for Jesus not Jehovah. You may reply :
" But here is something that may be a new thought to you, Of whom was Jesus the faithful witness ?? "_________Reasoning from the scriptures book page 208
Acts 1:8 Jesus directed his followers to be witnesses of him but,
The WTS claim to be witnesses of Jehovah instead of Christ = Antichrist
By their own definition from the Reasoning book they are in fact the Antichrist
They are not " FOLLOWING THE CHRIST "
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wasblind
" Persecution comes because Jehovah's witnesses put his ( Jesus ) commands ahead of any earthly ruler" ________Reasoning from the scriptures book page 207
" It is also vital to pay attention to his instructions regaurding our responsibilities as Christians ( Acts 1:8; Matt 28: 19,20 )________Reasoning from the scriptures book page 219
Think about this : If it wasn't for that goodie two shoes Jesus, satan could have proved jehovah wrong, But Noooooooooooo
Jesus wouldn't play along and take the things Satan Offered, So now Satan has to pose as the WTS and try to get folks
not to listen to Jesus when he says to be witnesses of him in Acts 1:8
That WTS is a sly slick and wicked one, makin' folks think the wrong they do is right
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King Solomon
Soooo, if you believe JWs are the apostates, and you believe the admonishment to cast out apostates from your presence is valid, then what does one do?
That's why Ray called it a "crisis of conscience". Do you place one's own personal interests ahead of the commands of the Bible?
You could wait for them to banish you (letting them reject YOU as the apostate), or you could make your statement in good faith and renounciate them (declare THEM as the apostates).
RF did the former: I think he sacrificed his own moral standing in the eyes of God, by not rejecting them first.
(Disclaimer: I'm an atheist, and believe this quandry is a false dilemma; it's all about some men who want to control others, MANY others)
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wasblind
It's OK King Solomon, I don't have nothin' against atheist , some of my favorite posters are atheist and agnostics
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King Solomon
Wasblind said:
It's OK King Solomon, I don't have nothin' against atheist , some of my favorite posters are atheist and agnostics
Don't get me wrong: I was disclosing it, not apologizing for being a rationalist (AKA using one's own powers of reasoning, vs letting someone else think for you).
Aside from the sheer goofiness of believing in imaginary beings (which I couldn't do, even if I WANTED to, without compelling evidence to believe), it also means I don't have to put up with debilitating, emotionally-draining situations such as these.
I tend to think of this alot like couples who stay in an unhappy marriage, "for the sake of the kids". What kind of message does that communicate to them? Isn't it preferable to teach them to stand up for themselves, leading by example when you KNOW in your heart that your whole life is centered around a religion that is a lie?
Someone's gotta make the first step, and the only one who can do it is the individual....