How Christian thinking was corrupted by Paul's clever explanations

by Terry 44 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • mP
    mP

    Terry:

    In the book of Acts, there are incidences of friction between Paul and the leaders of the 'Jerusalem Church', (surviving companions of Jesus); but this friction was seemingly resolved, and they all became the best of friends, with common aims and purposes.

    However...

    Paul's letters, (written BEFORE the Gospels) particularly Galatians, reveal those frictions were more serious than in the picture given in Acts. This has the effect of causing Acts to appear partly a propaganda exercise, intended to portray unity in the early Church .

    See where I am going with this? A dissonance in historical texts must be dealt with by redactors, copyists and theologians.

    x

    mP: If one reads Galatians it refers to a James and another scripture says James, John and Cephas. At a guess we dont really know if these are the same characters from the gospel. It seems strange that in Acts Peter is known as Cephas but everywhere in the gospels hes cool and trendy and goes by a Greek name. Im guessing like now John was a really popular name amongst the jews, hardly a great proof.

  • shepherd
    shepherd

    As I understand it, the Logians believe only the stated words of Jesus and go so far as to suggest Paul was the apostasy that Jesus warned about. That makes sense to me. Paul's religion is full of rules and judgementalism, and quite different from Jesus' quoted words.

  • Terry
    Terry

    It might prove to be very interesting if we were to stop here and talk about MARCION.

    Why?

    You'll see. He was a very influential man who totally embraced the writings of Paul as a replacement of the Old Testament.

    Watch what happened historically....

    MARCION was born in a Greek colony on the Black Sea used as a trade route and port. Travelers in and out of Sinope, Turkey brought wonderous tales with them about a Great Teacher named Jesus who may have been the long awaited Jewish Messiah.

    This was a little over 50 years after the execution of Jesus.

    Marcion's father was a wealthy ship owner and Bishop who filled young Marcion's ears with wonderful stories of god's benevolence, forgiveness and promises of a better life. These stories were a stark contrast to the tales of Jewish sailors and travelers to the port of Sinope, however.

    Jews would describe horrific deeds their God (Jehovah) had wrought upon mankind slaying the whole world of humanity in a flood and burning alive the citizens of Sodom and Gomorrah, commanding the slaughter of any who opposed Him.

    When Marcion was still a young man, the letters of a Roman citizen and Jewish evangelist named Paul began to circulate through the churches.

    Marcion's father, the Bishop, undoubtedly shared these epistles and the exhortations to follow Christ and leave the old world behind.

    Marcion responded! He became a Bishop himself, a brilliant leader and original thinker whose sermons and writings inspired thousands to action.

    Marcion's sermons were ORIGINAL thoughts. His teachings didn't match the Jewish christian teachings which were becoming more and more authoritative and exclusionary.

    THE JEWS, who were Christians, demanded that any converts to Christianity had to be JEWISH first. This meant you had to believe in and worship the Old Testament Jehovah!

    Marcion wasn't having any of that!

    For Marcion it was Jesus and Paul only!

    The best you could say about Jehovah was that He had created the world. As a kind of heavenly tyrant, Jehovah had tried to pass laws to hold man in check punishing him for evey infraction of his legalistic transgression.

    When man didn't turn out to be the unquestioning worshipper Jehovah had imagined--divine wrath began working misery and oppression and death on the populations of Earth. That's how Marcion saw it, anyway.

    Marcion lived in a GREEK colony, remember? The Greeks had a different sensibility about the divine than the Jews. For Marcion, it was no stretch of the imagination to see there must be TWO competing deities: JEHOVAH vs THE HEAVENLY FATHER whose son became Jesus the Christ.

    JEHOVAH got possession of the Jews and the HEAVENLY FATHER sought to ransom by sacrfice the rest of mankind through Jesus paying their debt.

    Quite a radical contrast to either Judaism or the still very young Jewish-Christian proto-religion.

    MARCION's Christianity only needed PAUL's teachings (after all--Paul had actually encountered the living Jesus!) and the Jesus stories circulating like a modern day bestseller around the world.

    THERE WAS NO FIXED CANON! There was no "New Testament". There were no boundries. Christianity was whatever--by whomever--make-it-up-as-you-go. This was Marcion's world. He played by his own rules, thinking, logic and individuality. Take it or leave it.

    Tens of thousands of people ended up listening and AGREEING!

    Clearly, there was going to be a 3 way competition for believers!

    JUDAISM

    Christian-JUDAISM

    MARCION'S Pauline Christianity

    In any competition there is conflict. In any conflict there is a grappling, debate, accusations, framing of issues and power struggle. Somebody is winner-take-all and the other competitor's are yesterday's news.

    History informs us: MARCION almost won!!

    With Marcion's version of things you did not have to learn Judaism, become circumcised, bring sacrifices to Jerusalem (which had been destroyed anyway), observe countless Jewish rituals--you only had to accept Jesus and believe! The only stories you had to accept were the letters from Paul and the miracle stories of Jesus helping people and teaching great things about his new Kingdom and benevolent Heavenly Father!

    The backlash was intense. You better believe it was intense.

    Jewish-Christians were first JEWS and you didn't mess with their Torah! Marcion ignored the Torah and spoke slightingly of Jewish religion as horror stories of a raving maniac primitive God! They went berserk at these teachings.

    A very interesting thing happened next.

    Marcion took a look at all the stories that were circulating about Jesus and his Apostles and Paul's letters. Which ones were reliable and which ones were obvious fairytales?

    It was MARCION HIMSELF who developed the idea of a TRUE CANON of scripture! Like Thomas Jefferson after him and the modern day Jesus Seminar--Marcion ommitted anything that sounded ridiculous! That was his test. If it didn't make sense--GET RID OF IT!!

    Ironically, in the Protestant rebellion against the Catholic Church, young Martin Luther did the very same thing. He removed 7 of the books of the then canonical Bible and wanted to get rid of others as well!. (Luther made an attempt to remove the books of Hebrews, James, Jude and Revelation from the canon.)

    Here is a brief snippet from Wikipedia (which you can verify by your own research, if you like):

    His canon included ten Pauline Epistles and one gospel [4] called the Gospel of Marcion, plus a rejection of the whole Hebrew Bible, and did not include the rest of the books later incorporated into the canonical New Testament. He propounded a Christianity free from Jewish doctrines with Paul as the reliable source of authentic doctrine. Paul was, according to Marcion, the only apostle who had rightly understood the new message of salvation as delivered by Christ. [5]

    Lions and Tigers and Bears, Oh my!!

    You might well wonder how the (what later became an entrenched Catholic) church might deal with such an original thinker.

    Ask yourself how the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses might deal with such a person! Here you have the equivalent of a RAYMOND FRANZ publishing radical revisions of everything you are saying is God's channel of communication and this upstart is contradicting you!!

    And remember--Marcion was a wealthy shipowner living in a center of trade! He was rich! But--Marcion had no ill will toward the other Jewish-Christian brotherhood at all. How do we know he wasn't simply an evil slave, an Agnostic Hellion? In the year 144 Marcion contributed 200,000 Sesterces to the Church of Rome! (A sesterce was a gold-copper coin.)

    The Church was so embarrassed by his act of charity (and angry at his large following) they immediately sent back the money and disfellowshipped him (EXCOMMUNICATION!)

    Marcion's biggest mistake (looking back) was moving to Rome itself where his followers and teachings and version of a canonical scripture would be right in the faces of the Jewish-Christian leadership. It would be like moving across the street from the Watchtower Building and setting up shop!

    The official Church started copying Marcion's idea of creating a canon of true scripture by insisting on their own "approved" stories and excluding the ones they didn't like.

    Since the Roman army had destroyed the Jewish center of worship in Jerusalem in 70 A.D. it seemed MARCION's rejection of JUDAISM had been proved correct in terms of God's own view of things. Marcion had gained ground, stature and converts in a world and time where there was safety in numbers. There was no room on the landscape for TWO christianities!

    Official Authoritarian pronouncements against Marcion and his ideas began to be circulated, published and made official by the Church. He became the very first person accused of HERESY. A new charge and a new "crime" as it were. This man set the stage for the rest of us throughout history to be marginalized and shut off from a fair hearing by official pronouncement of doom from ecclesiastical authority.

    Further, Marcion, by being EXCOMMUNICATED could not be viewed as a christian any longer. Insults were heaped upon him by the brotherhood that only days earlier were given a lavish donation by the same "brother". He was now referred to by the words: FIRSTBORN OF SATAN.

    If not the first Apostate, surely the Greatest to ever challenge the authority of others in the church.

    Ahhh, Christianity!

    Marcion's writings were at first banned, then seized, then burned by the Church which could not tolerate a competing testimony.

    Nothing remained by way of physical evidence he had ever existed. Had the Church won? Not exactly.....

    For years and years to come, various prominent Christian writers (who mysteriously seemed to have access to Marcion's banned writings) continued to "DEBATE" him in their own apologetic works. By quoting his teachings they inadvertently PRESERVED A RECORD OF THEM!

    It is because of Marcion's enemies not being able to let go--that we know anything at all about him today. We know of the insults, ad hominem attacks and reputation damage wrought by his fellow christians in trying to make him a curse to others. But we also know---he almost won!

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    Again, I think your reading of the Bible is very distorted. Yes, God is very juvenile in some Old Testament passages but not in others. It is utterly ridiculous to say that Judaism died and Paul's Christianity took its place. Judaism is alive and thriving. I don't know a single Jewish person who would characterize the God of the OT, as exclusively as you did.

    Not a single Jewish person and I know many.

    As with everything else in life, you find what you seek. A person who is phobic of snakes will see more snakes than the ordinary person. If you approach the Bible, looking for a vengeful God, you will find a vengeful God, b/c you have blinders on.

    God is very complex in both the OT and NT. The Bible endures mainly b/c we find what we want. Besides the Bible, many experience the livng Christ in their lives. I try to grapple with the complexity. After what I have endured personally, I become very irate with those who see a groovy God/Jesus. I do find Jesus groovy, on occasion, and very stark and angry on other occasions.

    Jesus and Paul defy such simple cubbyholes. You have not convinced me. Paul's message is moving. It has endured. Other traditons endure. Anyone who finds a cohesive God has not read scripture or encountered real life. Life would be very sad if things were so black and white.

    Being a former Witness and seeing how Paul was misappropriated to justify evil is very frustrating. I refuse to let the Witnesses blind me to the text.

  • ablebodiedman
    ablebodiedman

    I wonder what might have happened without Pauls letters.

    If it were only the Gospels then what would have happened to Christianity?

    Left with all those unanswered questions!

    Perhaps a Watchtower Society could have come along and made it all up with absolutely no accountability to

    the writings of Paul.

    Consider 2nd Thessalonians Chapter 2

    2Thessalonians2:11-12 So that is why God lets an operation of error go to them, that they may get to believing the lie, 12 in order that they all may be judged because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness.

    The lie.

    Millions Now Living Will Never Die

    They positively will not die.

    Pauls letter holds them accountable in a very profound way.

    as does Isaiah:

    and their own Watchtower magazines

    ***

    w837/1p.20TheLiveMenofFaithWhoWillNeverDie

    *** CompanionsofThoseHiddenFromDivineDenunciation

    Live

    abe

  • mP
    mP

    Band:

    Again, I think your reading of the Bible is very distorted. Yes, God is very juvenile in some Old Testament passages but not in others. It is utterly ridiculous to say that Judaism died and Paul's Christianity took its place. Judaism is alive and thriving. I don't know a single Jewish person who would characterize the God of the OT, as exclusively as you did.

    mP -> Band: Not quite, i think the best explaination of the weakened down God in the NT is the authors realised they were fooling nobody with their rants and raves about Jehovah destroying some nation and some king. Religion had to evolve and become more plausible. However we can from Revelation some nutjobs still loved to paint glorious war and destruction stories completely abstracted from reality.

  • myelaine
    myelaine

    dear Terry...

    you quoted: "The High Priest was not a Pharisee, but a Sadducee, and the Sadducees were bitterly opposed to the Pharisees. How is it that Saul, allegedly an enthusiastic Pharisee ('a Pharisee of the Pharisees'), is acting hand in glove with the High Priest? The picture we are given in our New Testament sources of Saul, in the days before his conversion to Jesus, is contradictory and suspect." ...in galatians 1:14 paul states that he advanced in JUDAISM because he was exceeding zealous for the traditions of his fathers. the fact that he was zealous for the pharisee teaching and not the sadducee teachings doesn't mean that he couldn't or wouldn't join forces with the high priest to rout out the new christians. the saying is, "the enemy of my enemy is my friend"

    paul had disagreements with the apostles about the need for the gentile christians to be "put under" the law as some of those laws seemed to be practiced in jerusalem but the JEWISH converts. it was these traditions that paul was against because he had spent his apostleship preaching grace or acceptance with God through JESUS (without conforming to the law)...his description of these other apostles as superfine was in regard to the fact that they had letters of recommendation and the congregation was impressed by that when, "He who glories, let him glory in the LORD."...and they had lost sight of the fact that it was paul who had taught them about their God and Lord and about the grace that is from Him...he thought of himself as their "father" in the faith. He was justifiably hurt AND concerned because these others could come in and sway the congregation to their way of "thinking" and the congregation could be so easily swayed...if they could be swayed in this way after all he had taught them, then what or who else might they be swayed by?...there is marked concern for the congregation .

    you said: " his threat in 4:21, "Shall I come to you with a stick?""...actually he was asking the congregation if they wanted him to come in the same way as the superfine apostles...the "law" is considered the rod or "stick" by which a jewish person is judged see:ezekiel 20:37, isaiah 11:1-5 (being "under" the law, which the jewish apostles were trying to do to the gentile believers). paul continued in galatians 6:12-13 about how these ones were not preaching this for the good of the congregation. They were causing division in the "church"...whether they meant to or not, though it is unlikely because they did strive to be of the same Spirit. It is stated that paul continued to go to jerusalem and one would expect someone who taught about forgiving a brother would be the first to confront them and straighten things out. There is nothing to suggest that the church was irreparably divided over this issue as paul was ever willing to confront rather that cover up or gloss over.

    love michelle

  • Terry
    Terry

    I wonder what might have happened without Pauls letters.

    If it were only the Gospels then what would have happened to Christianity?

    That is THE point of this inquiry!

  • Terry
    Terry

    Again, I think your reading of the Bible is very distorted. Yes, God is very juvenile in some Old Testament passages but not in others. It is utterly ridiculous to say that Judaism died and Paul's Christianity took its place. Judaism is alive and thriving. I don't know a single Jewish person who would characterize the God of the OT, as exclusively as you did.

    I'd say the bible itself IS distortion. But, of what? That is THE question!

    Consider this...

    "Love one another" (John xiii, 34).

    From the very beginning the church of Christ was filled with dissensions. Christ quarreled with his apostles. Paul opposed the teachings of James (Galatians ii, 16-21); James condemned the teachings of Paul (ii, 20). Paul proclaimed himself the divinely appointed apostle to the Gentiles. "The gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me" (Galatians ii, 7). Peter contended that the mission had been assigned to him "And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel" (Acts xv, 7).

    Paul declared Peter to be a dissembler. "But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him face to face, because he was to be blamed. For before that certain came from James, he did eat with Gentiles; but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision. And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him" (Galatians ii, 11-13).

    John denounced Paul as a liar. "Thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars" (Revelation ii, 2).

  • Quendi
    Quendi

    bookmarked

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