by Terry 36 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Gubberningbody said:
Terry, suppose that what's handed down in the Bible is just revisionist history written in the style of magical realism.
Why would I use it to reason out anything?
Well, you and I and Terry may know that to be the case, but it's a conclusion we've all reached after looking at other supporting evidence.
However, it's over-reaching here, since it's not the topic of THIS thread (God's inability to discern evil).
dear Terry...
you said: "If God were Evil-Blind it would explain why Satan was tolerated in the Holy of Holy heaven."...
satan came with the other angels and God specifically picked him out of the crowd .
the scriptures point to the fact that every time that God did personally deal with evil on the earth it was a powerful blow to its existence. the flood and sodom and gomorrah are our examples. When Jesus came it is stated that He humbled Himself being found in the form of a man. part of His incarnation was a self imposed restraint but again when He returns He will come in the glory of His Father...it is said that mountains will crumble and the kings of the earth will want them to fall on them to hide them from the wrath of the Lamb. mountains and islands will be moved from their places. as before, the presence of God on earth will be a powerful blow to its existence. it is because the direct intervention of God to deal with evil is so extensive, it is His mercy which causes Him to forgo directly dealing with every instance of evil. imo.
love michelle
Terry said:
5 “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”
The serpent tells a lie about God. Can you spot the lie?Nope, i can't see a lie there.... Maybe you were thinking of the lie found in the words that follow ("you surely shall NOT die")?
dear King Solomon...
I think Terry is suggesting that God doesn't know evil, in line with his "God is blind to evil" OP.
love michelle
Knowing good and evil is the lie, assuming we accept the premise that God is Evil Blind.
Here's a thought. God is Evil Blind. God has created this perfect world, at least within the confines of the garden. Just as a person knows they are color blind, God knows he's Evil Blind, so he wants his ultimate creation, man and woman, to be like him. After all they were created in his image.
But there's that pesky tree. Lets call it the Smart Tree. Hillbilly God doesent want his ultimate creation to be smarter than him, no reaching out for higher education. So , God being the Supreme being he is, says don't eat from that tree. Along comes the serpent ( in many cutlers being a symbol of wisdom ) naw, eat from the tree, it'll make you smart, like God. What it does is, it makes them smarter than God, because theyare not Evil Blind.
In a petty tantrum God curses them, than kicks them out of the Garden into the harsh cold reality of life. Not only is God Evil Blind, he is also a petty tyrant. Case in point; the flood. In a snit God attempts to wipe out not only the human race, but every thing tha creeps, and crawls. Thus the redaction and insert of Noah. Otherwise the whole time line and redemption idea is no longer valid.
God....Evil Blind and petty, stuck with an ultimate creation smarter than He, Tuff being a Supreme being, eh?
"God does not comprehend this. It makes Him angry. It makes him lash out. It makes Him bargain. It makes Him inconsistent."
As you know Terry - These are the actions of a creature. A supreme being would not be subject to negative emotions or disappointments.
The god described in the opening post is a god made in the image of man. Is there any other kind?
Myelaine said:
"I think Terry is suggesting that God doesn't know evil, in line with his "God is blind to evil" OP."
Ah, yes, I see. :) The problem is, YHWH himself makes a statement that after eating fruit, man HAD become "like Gods, knowing good and evil".... Unless God was lying, or self-deluded (like someone who is color-blind, but has no idea they see colors differently)? The important differentiating element of God vs man before the Fall WAS wisdom, aka the ability to exercise sound reasoning pertaining to moral decision-making. Immortality aside, the fruit gave man parity with Gods, becoming like them, opening their eyes to the world of morality. (yes, God created them as perfect amoral robots; in fact, God didn't even WANT them to be any different, as he commanded them NOT to eat of the fruit). God had enough confidence in mans moral decision-making skills such that immediately after the Flood, God delegates authority to mankind to set up laws and courts, authorizing men to punish each other with His blessing. All of these actions are intended for the Torahaic writers to demonstrate how God has granted His moral authority for them to exercise control over the rank and file, up to capital punishment. (although you can't help but wonder about the timing, as if God relinquished control to man right after botching the Flood, after failing in his primary objective of eliminating "evil from the hearts of men". If God HAD succeeded in his mission statement, there wouldn't be ANY need to delegate such authority, would there?) While interesting to speculate upon, Terry's idea doesn't offer any practical benefit to explain why YHWH's Torahaic law is supposed to be obeyed (ie the Torah's moral superiority over man's secular codes is based on YHWH's moral superiority) in the introductory story of Adam and Eve, presented before the avalanche of laws are introduced. A&E tale serves not only as a compact "origins myth", but also as a short morality play about the dangers of not following Gods rules to the exact letter (the benefit of such a warning should be obvious, in a book of meticulous and copious laws).
Gladiator said:
"The god described in the opening post is a god made in the image of man. Is there any other kind?"
Actually, yes. The phrase about man being made "in the image of god" actually is reflective of the fact that many Gods were NOT conceived as manlike (anthropomorphized), but inanimate deities (like the Sun, etc) or animals. YHWH being in mans image means He can be written as hearing, thinking, speaking, touching, seeing, walking thru Gardens, resting his feet on the firmament, etc
While interesting to speculate upon, Terry's idea doesn't offer any practical benefit to explain why YHWH's Torahaic law is supposed to be obeyed (ie the Torah's moral superiority over man's secular codes is based on YHWH's moral superiority) in the introductory story of Adam and Eve, presented before the avalanche of laws are introduced.
An intelligent analysis and thoughtful response, I would say!
Man's failure to live up to the perfect "moral" standard is not really a test of anything more than manufacturing standards of God.
So, if Adam couldn't do it...why would Adam's sinful, imperfect offspring be expected to do it?
2Thessalonians2:11-12 So that is why God lets an operation of error go to them, that they may get to believing the lie, 12 in order that they all may be judged because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness.
On the other hand...it is cynical of God to place an un-do-able into the hands of man and demand it be done.
Only an HONEST God who is blind to man's moral defect would expect compliance.
At least that's how it appears to me.
Mind you...I don't ACTUALLY BELIEVE any of this. I'm arguing a premise AS THOUGH it were true and seeing how it
actuates the mythos with a greater reality.
dear GLADIATOR...
you said: "A supreme being would not be subject to negative emotions or disappointments."...
Would you think it more supreme if God just set the operation in motion and split? Like the father who is always away on business?...I think the fact that God DOES have interaction with and even shares in mans joy and sorrow as well as showing wrath towards the evil that eventually destroys his creatures is a more profound example of a "supreme being." He shows understanding, He CAN pity us in His supremacy. The continuity of the life of man IS His business.
The attribute of love comes with many emotions...two are bitter and sweet.
love michelle
I think the fact that God DOES have interaction with and even shares in mans joy and sorrow as well as showing wrath towards the evil that eventually destroys his creatures is a more profound example of a "supreme being.
So, if I understand correctly what you are saying....it is better to be destroyed by God than to destroy yourself through sin?
Seems like dead is dead to me.
What exactly is the advantage to God's approach?
If man has some kind of "free" will it certainly isn't free from the crosshairs of the Almighty.
