TT2C said:
Ahh, another ex-JW who thinks God wants man to HAVE free will
Nope, if you accept the bible as the truth, then there is no point to "free will"; because a true servant of god, would only do what their god wills them do. The whole notion is really ridiculous when you think about it.
While all of what we're discussing is based on concepts none of us (Terry, you, or I) actually believe, the discussion IS being conducted so we can help point out the errors to those who are still trapped under the weight of the WT's flawed logic. Tryin' to break some chains here, cut thru some Gordian knots to extract those buried under the rubble!
The Bible's view of Will is pretty simple, and boils down to only two types that exists:
#1) God's Divine Will. Any action contrary to His Divine Will is broadly categorized as a sin.
#2) Man's Free Will. This is the moral decision-making capacities inside man, but is to be used ONLY for matters of conscience, i.e. any decisions that aren't already covered by #1). Think of what color of tie to wear, or any moral decision not covered by a command found the Bible.
God's Divine Will ALWAYS trumps mans use of Free Will. In other words, God doesn't grant men His permission to sin.
So with that in mind, sometimes you'll hear JWs parrot the line, "God created A&E with free-will, because He didn't want to create them as mere ROBOTS, who HAD to worship and love him"....
Nope, that's EXACTLY what God did: He created A&E devoid of a developed inner moral compass, AKA a conscience, but worse, He actively prohibited them from ever being any different from the way He created them, since He denied them from ever obtaining wisdom.
Hence A&E were created possessing the morality capabilities of children, with their impaired moral sensibility, and hence were unable to do any other than simply follow orders. So while they may have had a DESIRE to be wise (and hence, the temptation to eat of the fruit existed), God didn't give them two things very important things to become wise:
1) the capacity to use their Free-Will. Their use of free will was handicapped by a lack of "moral fuel", AKA wisdom (remember that the Bible considers foolishness and wisdom as antonyms; hence if they lacked wisdom, the implication is they were actually created as fools).
2) His permission to USE their free will. The very act of prohibiting eating of the fruit blocked their ability to eat it under free will; the act was taken from A&E's free will domain, and placed it into God's Divine Will domain.
So in order to gain the capability to responsibily exercise their free-will in the future, they had to violate God's Divine Will: they HAD to steal the fruit to ever gain moral decision-making for mankind.
Taken as a whole, that suggests God did NOT create men with free-will: they had to disobey God to obtain free will.
A good analogy is the U.S. not wanting Iran to become a nuclear state: we may not want them to do so, but once they get nukes, it's too late. They gained the capacity, and it's no longer a theoretical, it becomes a reality that must be dealt with.
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It's interesting is compare the story of King Solomon, who supposedly experienced a dream as a boy wherein he was told by God that whatever He wished would be granted. Young Solomon asked for WISDOM, the very same trait that A&E STOLE from God; God granted young Solomon his request. So instead of STEALING it, King Solomon was GIVEN it by YHWH.
So the idea of YHWH wanting to play "Mother May I?" with A&E may not be so far off from the mark; A&E lost at YHWH's intented game, whereas Solomon caught on quickly.