"Undeserved kindness" is a stellar example of the renderer's (I dare not call it a translation, because that requires translators) principal of "why use one syllable when 5 will do" when producing the New World Rendering.
New World Translation Assaults on Language and Phrases that Always Wigged Me Out!
by DarioKehl 20 Replies latest watchtower scandals
-
-
PaintedToeNail
Dario-You are so right! If anyone would have ever told me my breast were like towers as a very young woman, I would've turned red with embarassment and run like a bat out of hell. If my brothers had been discussing my breasts in such manner, it would have been revolting. The SoS being called 'superlative' poetry always was gag inducing.
I too, have questioned the 'time indefinite' thing as being forever, as the word indefinite just means, un-defined. Infinity, means forever.
The term 'undeserved kindness' does make it seem like everyone is a worthless piece of crap.
-
Wonderment
dropoffyourkeylee said: "Here's one that always irked me:
John 5:30, "I seek, not my own will, but the will of him that sent me", where the wording should be "him who sent me". At least that is what I was taught in every English class, if it refers to a person the word should be 'who'. The NW translator did this repeatedly, especially in John:
John 3:36,5:30,5:32, 6:45, 7:16,8:26, as well as Matt 5:28.
You would think they could at least gotten the English grammar right."
Did you check John 5:30 in the NWT against these others?:
Wycliffe NT; Douay-Rheims Bible; Darby Translation; American Standard Version; Rotherham Translation, to name a few. Either the NWT translators were influenced by these older versions, or else, influenced by the Greek construction there (articular verbal participle aorist with a noun/adjectival force). [Literally: "...but the will of the (one)having sent me."]
On another subject, in translating "my breasts are like towers, the NWT is not alone doing so, since that is the Hebrew reading. This well illustrates the disparity of languages, and the difficulty the Bible translator faces when having to choose between the original, and modern paraphrases to bring the writer's message across. The versions below communicate easier to modern readers, but the Hebrew analogies are lost. It's your choice. I like both.
The Message Bible: "my breasts are full." Living Bible: "full breasted." Clear Word: "now I'm grown."
-
Leolaia
I earlier wrote this:
The NWT imo is filled with awkward and sometimes difficult turns of phrase, some of which represent an overly literal adherence to source language syntax (e.g. "Her get for me" in the original NWT edition at Judges 14:3) and idiom (cf. the example from Ezra below), some of which represent idiosyncratic overtranslations, while others represent simply bad English prose on the part of the authors. Some examples that come to mind: "Let continue yours what is yours" (Genesis 33:9), "Suppose I am now come to the sons of Israel and I do say to them" (Exodus 3:13), "in order that, to quote him" (4:3-5), "nor since your speaking to your servant" (4:10), "the Nile River will fairly stink and the Egyptians will simply have no stomach for drinking water" (7:18),"I, your father-in-law, Jethro, am come to you, and also your wife and her two sons with her" (18:6), "Jehovah the God of Israel it was that dispossessed the Amorites" (Judges 11:23), "But womankind has been kept away from us the same as formerly when I went out, and the organisms of the young men continue holy .... And how much more today, when one becomes holy in [his] organism" (1 Samuel 21:5), "Anyone striking the Jebusites, let him, by means of the water tunnel, make contact with both the lame and the blind, hateful to the soul of David!" (2 Samuel 5:8), "Now inasmuch as we do eat the salt of the palace, and it is not proper for us to see the denuding of the king, on this account we have sent and made [it] known to the king" (Ezra 4:14), "This I have found, one thing [taken] after another, to find out the sumup" (Ecclesiastes 7:27), "As with the stroke of one striking him does one have to strike him? Or as with the slaughter of his killed ones does he have to be killed?" (Isaiah 27:7), "Take note of my bearing reproach on account of your own self" (Jeremiah 15:15), "and in coming he will certainly come ... and he will excite himself all the way to his fortress" (Daniel 11:10),"He was forming a [locust] swarm at the start of the coming up of the later sowing. And look! it was the later sowing after the mown grass of the king" (Amos 7:1), "And one must say to him, 'What are these wounds [on your person] between your hands?' And he will have to say, 'Those with which I was struck in the house of my intense lovers" (Zechariah 13:5-6), "But they all in common started to beg off" (Luke 14:18), "Now when she and her household got baptized, she said with entreaty: 'If YOU men have judged me to be faithful to Jehovah, enter into my house and stay.' And she just made us come" (Acts 16:15), "For if by the trespass of the one [man] death ruled as king through that one, much more will those who receive the abundance of the undeserved kindness and of the free gift of righteousness rule as kings in life through the one [person], Jesus Christ" (Romans 5:17), "Now the Law came in beside in order that trespassing might abound" (5:20), "who, although he was existing in God's form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God" (Philippians 2:6), etc.
I mean, it often reads as if it was composed by someone who speaks English as a second language. When I was a JW it was often frustrating reading the NWT because I had no idea what I was reading, the sentence wouldn't make sense, or I couldn't follow the thread of the argument or narrative. Yet when I tried to read the Bible in most other translations, I wouldn't have this problem in comprehension. And even if there wasn't a problem in comprehension, the language in the NWT often is just godawful. (imo of course)
-
Aware!
I mean, it often reads as if it was composed by someone who speaks English as a second language. When I was a JW it was often frustrating reading the NWT because I had no idea what I was reading, the sentence wouldn't make sense, or I couldn't follow the thread of the argument or narrative. Yet when I tried to read the Bible in most other translations, I wouldn't have this problem in comprehension. And even if there wasn't a problem in comprehension, the language in the NWT often is just godawful. (imo of course)
Leolaia- I'm glad I wasn't the only JW who thought the same. I tried talking about this with a brother once and he felt offended after I told him I understood other translations better. He told me the NWT was the best and most accurate Bible. I strongly disagreed but didn't say anything back. I feel so relieved that I can now speak my mind with others freely.
-
John Kesler
I like the places where punctuation is added or changed to put the correct spin on a verse. Here are some examples:
Luke 23:42-43
42 And he went on to say: “Jesus, remember me when you get into your kingdom.” 43 And he said to him: “Truly I tell you today, You will be with me in Paradise.”
The comma is placed after "today" rather than "you," to avoid the implication that the thief would be in Paradise that very day. Compare how the NWT translates Luke 12:37, 18:17, 29, and 21:32.
1 Samuel 28:
11 At this the woman said: “Whom shall I bring up for you?” To this he said: “Bring up Samuel for me.” 12 When the woman saw “Samuel” she began crying out at the top of her voice; and the woman went on to say to Saul: “Why did you trick me, when you yourself are Saul?” 13 But the king said to her: “Do not be afraid, but what did you see?” And the woman went on to say to Saul: “A god I saw coming up out of the earth.” 14 At once he said to her: “What is his form?” to which she said: “It is an old man coming up, and he has himself covered with a sleeveless coat.” At that Saul recognized that it was “Samuel,” and he proceeded to bow low with his face to the earth and to prostrate himself.
15 And “Samuel” began to say to Saul: “Why have you disturbed me by having me brought up?” To this Saul said: “I am in very sore straits, as the Phi·lis´tines are fighting against me, and God himself has departed from me and has answered me no more, either by means of the prophets or by dreams; so that I am calling you to let me know what I shall do.”
16 And “Samuel” went on to say: “Why, then, do you inquire of me, when Jehovah himself has departed from you and proves to be your adversary? 17 And Jehovah will do for himself just as he spoke by means of me, and Jehovah will rip the kingdom away from your hand and give it to your fellowman David. 18 As you did not obey the voice of Jehovah, and you did not execute his burning anger against Am´a·lek, that is why this is the thing that Jehovah will certainly do to you this day. 19 And Jehovah will also give Israel with you into the hand of the Phi·lis´tines, and tomorrow you and your sons will be with me. Even the camp of Israel Jehovah will give into the hand of the Phi·lis´tines.”
20 At that Saul quickly fell down his full length to the earth and became very much afraid because of “Samuel’s” words.
The name Samuel is placed in quotation marks to avoid the plain reading that it really was Samuel appearing after death.
-
Wonderment
Leolaia:
I could not agree with you more. The NWT is not pleasant overall to read page after page.
But because it's so unique, it has its place as a Study Bible (my opinion). The translation challenges many common views, and introduces many refreshing thoughts throughout the rendered text. Of course, I realize that is why many here and elsewhere dislike it.
One thing that I found striking when reading Bible reviews of various versions (by the like of Lewis, Kubo/Specht, etc.), is that if a person were to focus on one of their chapters dealing with any of the many versions and its oddities, he or she could walk away with the "godawful" impression that that specific version fails the test. Granted, the NWT perhaps beats them all in the oddity department, but my point is that those same reviewers could take the positive renderings of any of those versions and produce a more estimulating experience.
So, Leolaia, out of curiosity, have you ever come up with a list of NWT favorable renderings, if any? If so, could you share such a list with us?
-
Bobcat
John Kesler:
'Luke 23:43 - Truly I tell you today,'
This comma placement defies logic. They completely ignore the fact that Greek is an inflected language. "I tell you" (versus "I told you" or "I will tell you") is enough to know that it was "today." What "day" was the thief going to think Jesus was speaking to him? Tomorrow? Yesterday?
And "Samuel" is typical WT. They simply can't let you decide or think for yourself. It is on a par with "other" in Col. 3:15
Wonderment:
"It [NWT] has its place as a Study Bible (my opinion)"
I agree. I'm glad I have one and I do use it. But never exclusively. I'm just finding too many untrustworthy verses. A good recent example from this past WT study is Revelation 1:10.
Another somewhat dishonest phrase is "gifts in men." (Eph 4:8) Even the footnote in the Ref. Bible is somewhat deceptive. The footnote in the 1950 NWT (Christian Greek Scriptures) tells the real story. But they left that out of the updated Ref. Bible.
When my wife and I read the Bible together, I'll often use another translation just because when she reads, it forces me to analyze the text as I follow in the different translation. I think it works towards building reading comprehension. But I notice that more and more, my wife has to see what the other translation says to get an idea what the verse or phrase is saying. The uber-literalness has its place, but it does impede reading comprehension.
Leolaia:
Very interesting list. I used to keep a list of verses where the NWT read more understandably than the KJV. I think I'll borrow yours and make another list.
-
mP
You might want to check just how many verses they have deleted compared to other translations simply because the text is shall we say incompatible w/ their beliefs. We also have some parts where they refuse to translate the text for the same reason w/ Job 38:32 a perfect example, it says Jehovah uses astrology and that the zodiac controls our lives.
-
RubaDub
The Message Bible: "my breasts are full." Living Bible: "full breasted." Clear Word: "now I'm grown."
I would have translated it as "a nice rack"
Rub a Dub