I Believe Catholicism And Its Trappings Are Silly, Strange & Weird!!!

by minimus 306 Replies latest jw friends

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  Orthodox1

  When you make too much sense: jehovahs-witness.net silences you. See forum "What about History?" and notice that I have been deleted, or silenced. Here is the message I receieved, and my response:

  Jgnat:

  The picture of the dead fetus was offensive.
  
  I understand that you are passionate about this subject, but this is the wrong way to broadcast interest.

  Orthodox1:

  Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you mad. ~Aldous Huxley

  Are we living in an age where truth is now offensive? Of all the hate, cursing, and slander on these forums, a picture of real truth and genocide is offensive?

  I will respectfully disagree. You may administrate as you please, and permit and deny speech that what you will.

  God bless,

  -Travis

  I also don't see a "Start New Thread" option anymore, so it appears I've struck a nerve. That's quite alright seeing I have my own websites I administrate, but I was hoping people here were open to truth in dialogue. Yes, I suppose I am whining. Hope to see you all around.
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  Orthodox1

  Okay, so I can start a new thread, so it's not a total conspiracy! ;)
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  rather be in hades

  still looking for that persecution huh?
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  Orthodox1

  Nope, searching for intelligent life, but starting to think Curiosity has better odds on Mars!
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  NewChapter

  So, if you are really looking at long bloody history and choosing between atheism and Catholicism

  If that were what I were basing my decision on, then it would be relevant. I'm not. Humans are as they are, and Christians are no better than the rest. Christian institutions have instigated a lot of bloody death. This is only more elevated because it claims to carry a message of love, and it certainly does not at all times. Individuals vary of course. I actually don't need to own Pol Pot, because I have nothing to do with him, his ideology, or his morals. He was a free agent, and a monster. Since I belong to no organization that condoned his behavior, I feel pretty removed morally from his atrocities.

  There is nothing about atheism that demands any actions whatsoever. We only agree that there is no evidence for a god. We don't go to services that preach Inquisition, Crusades and witch burnings. MOST people don't go to such services today---but that is the history.

  Now on to what I based my decision on. If I believed in a god, and I believed it was working through the Catholic church, then I would not be deciding between atheism and Catholicism. I would be a believer. I would not suddenly be an atheist because of the behavior of that church or some of its people. I would not suddenly be a believer because of wonderful things attributed to that church and it's people. The actions of people don't really define the issue for me. It is evidence, but not the deciding factor.

  I find no evidence for that god. Not personally, not in nature, not in the behavior of the people or institutions. That makes me an atheist. If a Catholic nun found me beaten and broken on the street and took me in and made me well and comforted me, she would be a wonderful person. But that would not make me Catholic, because that does not address the only issue that matters to an atheist when making such decisions----is there a god. I know that if an atheist, Buddhist, Wiccan, Jew, Muslim, or Hindu found me in the same condition, they would be just as likely to help (if not held back by prejudice). Because that is part of the human spectrum. Some from all groups may also pass me by. Another end of the human spectrum.

  The thing that angers me is when an institution says it is representing a god of love, but when it gets some power it uses it to do a lot of harm. Perhaps the issue is power. We just shouldn't let them get too powerful, while at the same time protecting their rights to exist.

  NC
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  rather be in hades

  When you make too much sense: jehovahs-witness.net silences you. See forum "What about History?" and notice that I have been deleted, or silenced. Here is the message I receieved, and my response:

  riiiiiiiiiiiight you're not looking for persecution at all

  you should leave the search for intelligent life to those not blinded by faith
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  Sulla

  How are you going to throw " National Socialism's paganism" into the mix with Atheists? Weren't Facists/Nazis and Communits enemies? Didn't the Catholics lend support toe the National Socialists? Quit reaching.

  {sigh}. There is a long history of National Socialist antagonism toward the Catholics, beginning with the assault on Catholic schools and ending with guys like Max Kolbe getting killed. I grabbed pagans because they tend to get pretty good treatment here vis-a-vis the idea of Catholic violence in a way similar to the atheists.

  None of the Atheist you have met are supporting the ideas of a Central State Communism.

  None of the Catholics you have met support burning heretics at the stake, but that doesn't seem to cut us much of a break, does it?

  If you include Pol Pot who was just was anti-science as he was anti-religion, then I can include any religious group that has ever appeared.

  Not so much, and you know it. The Khmer Rouge were against religion -- atheists. Catholics are not against science. Did you say something about reaching?

  NC, perhaps I have misundrstood you. You did say some, " have simply come to a different conclusion than you have when looking at your churche's long and bloody history." That position would seem to suggest that the crude "body count" exercise has some bearing on the matter. Now, you say it doesn't matter. So, help a brother out: does it matter or not?

  As for whether atheists need to "own" Stalin or the Gang of Four, it seems quite the dodge to claim no organizational affiliation. These guys were atheists, living an authentic atheist life in accord with good atheist principles. It is those principles you endorse, so how to you get to skip out?
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  NewChapter

  Hades, would you PLEASE stop feeding Ortho persecution complex? Would you buy an alcoholic a drink, a drug addict heroin, and geek a computer, Sol another wife? I fully support his right to seek out his next fix, I just don't want to provide it. Think about THAT you codependent enabler.
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  still thinking

  When you make too much sense: jehovahs-witness.net silences you.

  If thats the case, you'll be here a long time.,,yacking

  JWN has a LOT of tolerance for god pushers. I respect the owner and the moderators for their inclusion of all faiths and non faiths...maybe you could show some respect too.
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  NewChapter

  NC, perhaps I have misundrstood you. You did say some, "have simply come to a different conclusion than you have when looking at your churche's long and bloody history." That position would seem to suggest that the crude "body count" exercise has some bearing on the matter. Now, you say it doesn't matter. So, help a brother out: does it matter or not?

  For believers choosing a church, body count can be reconciled or not. Different conclusions. For those looking for fruitage, they may consider this. Or they may focus on other things. It does matter to some---believers----but not me. I'm not a believer. Now if someone is looking evidence for god, and they look at those who claim to be directed by god doing atrocious things, that may be a piece of a bigger puzzle that helps them reach their conclusion. They could conclude that there is no evidence that a loving god is a force in their lives, and that along with other evidence would lead one to conclude that the answer is there simply is no loving god.

  Atheism has no principles. We have to find those on our own. I don't own Stalin either. His principles differed greatly from mine, and we did not belong to the same groups. Atheism is not an organization or a way of life. It is merely descriptive of a person's view of gods. Plenty of atheists are assholes---big deal. They haven't broken any atheist rules, because there are no rules.

  Now when a pope stands up, as a leader of an organization, and says he is speaking for a god, and then endorses torture and encourages his followers to partake in persecution, well then the church DOES own what happens next. They have a code of conduct, and if they let the monsters hold the sceptor, then they are complicate.

  I could belong to an atheist organization with screwed up principles, and then I'd feel more connected to what happened by the members. If they taught torture and persecution, and I supported that organization, then I would be tainted by that. But that is an organization, not simply the belief that there is no god.