The Watchtower seems to have lost track of one of their favorite endtime players - the King of
the North. How could they let such an important component of their prophecies vanish.
Growing up in the 50's and 60's I fully believed the Watchtower’s scheme for interpreting Daniel.
And it was quite believable back then. The Soviet Union was given the role of King of the North
and the USA was the king of the South. It was a perfect fit and it was one of the most convincing
arguments that the Watchtower got it right. What could be north of the Soviet Union. The
Soviet Union was located at latitudes much further to the north than the USA. And amazingly
these rival nations were armed to the teeth with nuclear weapons - enough to blow each other up
and the entire world. They appeared to be the formula for the eschaton..
On top of that they didn’t even pretend to like each other. The post war period was a game of
pushing and shoving. Nato and the Warsaw pact were always target practicing on each other.
There was no need to guess whether each had weapons of mass destruction. Each side carried a
box with the buttons of retaliation. It was only a matter of time before someone pressed the
button.
Then in the late 1980's Gorbachev appeared on the scene and Russia and the United States quit
threatening each other. Immediately, the Watchtower backed away from the idea that the Soviet
Union was the King of the North. It appears that they were spooked too often with mistaken
predictions so they quickly changed their position on the King of the North. At first they said
they didn’t know who the NEW King of the North would be. Finally, they focused on the United
Nations and it’s future attack on Religion. At this time you find wide speculation among JW’s
about the NEW king of the north. Iran, Iraq, China, North Korea even Islam was suspected of
taking on this crucial role.
If only they would have stuck to their old interpretation they wouldn’t be in this current
quandary. Has the relationship between Russia and the USA really changed significantly? Has
the USA quit pushing Russia? Has Russia and the USA really dismantled their weapons? They
may have retargeted some weapons. They may have “decommissioned” some of their weapons.
They may have moved some weapons off of their launchers. But should we think for a second
that either side has made the world safer?
Currently, the US is pushing Russia with new missile installations in former Warsaw pact lands.
Last November, then President Medvedev made the following declaration:
“First, I am instructing the Defense Ministry to immediately put the missile attack early warning
radar station in Kaliningrad on combat alert. Second, protective cover of Russia’s strategic
nuclear weapons, will be reinforced as a priority measure under the programme to develop our air
and space defenses. Third, the new strategic ballistic missiles commissioned by the Strategic
Missile Forces and the Navy will be equipped with advanced missile defense penetration systems
and new highly-effective warheads. Fourth, I have instructed the Armed Forces to draw up
measures for disabling missile defense system data and guidance systems if need be… Fifth, if
the above measures prove insufficient, the Russian Federation will deploy modern offensive
weapon systems in the west and south of the country, ensuring our ability to take out any part of
the US missile defense system, in Europe. One step in this process will be to deploy Iskander
missiles in Kaliningrad Region”
Here are some quotes from a Putin Speech Vladimir Putin at the Conference on Security Policy
Munich, Germany Feb. 10, 2007
What is a “unipolar world?” However one might embellish this term, at the end of the day, it
refers to one type of situation—namely, one center of authority, one center of force, one center of
decision-making. It is [a] world in which there is one master, one sovereign. And at the end of
the day, this is pernicious, not only for all those within this system but also for the sovereign
itself, because it destroys itself from within....So-called flexible front-line American bases [have]
up to five thousand men in each. It turns out that NATO has put its front-line forces on our
borders. ... I think it is obvious that NATO expansion does not have any relation with the
modernization of the Alliance itself or with ensuring security in Europe. On the contrary, it
represents a serious provocation that reduces the level of mutual trust. And we have the right to
ask: Against whom is this expansion intended? And what happened to the assurances our
Western partners made after the dissolution of the Warsaw Pact? Where are those declarations
today? No one even remembers them. ...
So why didn’t the Watchtower stick with a good thing? They had a great interpretation working
for them. Don't they know that everything old is new again?
King of the North - Missing in Action
by scotoma 45 Replies latest jw friends
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scotoma
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King Solomon
The Soviet Union was given the role of King of the North and the USA was the king of the South.
Yeah, like maybe if you never looked at a Globe of the Earth: while USSR was to the North, USA is to the Northeast of Babylon!
At this time you find wide speculation among JW’s about the NEW king of the north. Iran, Iraq, China, North Korea even Islam was suspected of taking on this crucial role.
Peeshaw!!! The King of the North clearly is CANADA!!!
Those Canadians seem all sedate, with their Ehs and aboots, but they are focused on World Domination (starting with hockey, and cornering the lucrative maple syrup market; nukes cannot be far behind).
But yeah, you make a good point: this whole King of North/South interpretation is now being quietly swept under the rug, as all failed prophecies are....
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mP
S:
The Watchtower seems to have lost track of one of their favorite endtime players - the King of
the North. How could they let such an important component of their prophecies vanish.
Growing up in the 50's and 60's I fully believed the Watchtower’s scheme for interpreting Daniel.
And it was quite believable back then. The Soviet Union was given the role of King of the North
and the USA was the king of the South. It was a perfect fit and it was one of the most convincing
arguments that the Watchtower got it right. What could be north of the Soviet Union. The
Soviet Union was located at latitudes much further to the north than the USA. And amazingly
these rival nations were armed to the teeth with nuclear weapons - enough to blow each other up
and the entire world. They appeared to be the formula for the eschaton..mP ->S:
The whole K of the N and S thing is utter nonsense. They simply selected picked when and whom to apply this text too.In terms of area Spain when it controlled the Americas had an empire larger than all bible kings as well except for the last lot of America and USSR. Surely they should have qualified as the King of the North given they were enemies of England for a while.
Another example if France especially under the mad genius Napoleon, he conqured lands and more people than all Kings of the South and North combined and that includes Rome, Egypt and so on.
The last question i wish to ask is why is America and England combined, when they are hardly a personal union of a single king nor are they one country. Just because they may be allies today, hardly makes them a united. It wasnt that long ago they had a war in 1812 which hardly sounds united. If anything America should be a new king of the South not a joint king with the UK. Even during WW2, America for a while did absolutely nothing to help Britain, and it was even supplying all sorts of equipment to Hitler. If they were the "same" the fact one side does nothing whie the other is in trouble is madness and the supplying phase is utterly preposterous.
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Jeffro
Another example if France especially under the mad genius Napoleon, he conqured lands and more people than all Kings of the South and North combined and that includes Rome, Egypt and so on.
In 1924, Rutherford did claim that Napoleon was the 'king of the south', which was also wrong. The 'kings of the north and south' were all dead 2100 years ago.
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cedars
mP
The Soviet Union was given the role of King of the North and the USA was the king of the South. It was a perfect fit and it was one of the most convincing arguments that the Watchtower got it right.
I was less convinced myself. Bear in mind that, in the prophecy of the immense image (which has since been "tweaked"), the Roman Empire was said to merge seamlessly with the Anglo-American world power. However, in the North v South prophecy, Rome becomes Nazi Germany and later the Soviet Union - both ENEMIES of Anglo-America in the 20th Century. It always confused me as to why God would inspire Daniel to write that X power would become Y power in one prophecy, but that X power would become the ENEMY of Y power in another prophecy. It didn't add up.
Now, of course, it's slightly different - because the iron and moulded clay IS Anglo America - whereas in the Daniel book the iron and moulded clay were said to be a fragmented state of political affairs AFTER Anglo-America (which was said to be part of the iron legs along with Rome). At least, that's how I read it.
Cedars
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TheOldHippie
Just a small addition: There is in the literature and in talks mentioned the possibility that Russia or forces within Russia as it is stated, will appear as the infamous King, so the Russian connection has not been completely shelved. (And the Putin-Orthodox connection is a mean one.)
But as you state, all the way down to the end of the 1980s, it fit oh! so well.
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Aussie Oz
Being the masters of the 'flip flop' i am sure they could easily re-declare russia as the king of the north and the US as king of the south.
Jws would peobably not even notice.
Oz
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mP
Cedars->MP:
However, in the North v South prophecy, Rome becomes Nazi Germany and later the Soviet Union - both ENEMIES of Anglo-America in the 20th Century. It always confused me as to why God would inspire Daniel to write that X power would
mP:
To be fair Hitler thought he was the third Rome, the second was the Holy Roman Empire, but they werent even Roman, Charlamagne was French!(!!). That makes no sense at all.
How exactly does the Islamic world manage to conquer from India to Span with none of its Caliphates qualifying as a King ? Surely the Ottomans must have.
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mP
What about the King of the East, China ?