Because Jehovah's rulership was so good, no angels even thought of the idea of rebellion, it took billions of years till finally an angel who served faithfully came up with the idea and then after a billion years of thinking about it the the idea became a desire and walla! the desire gave birth to an action and the action gave birth to sin. No second chance for perfect creatures who sin.
Why wasn't the Issue of Universal Sovereignty raised amongst the angels long before Adam and Eve
by yadda yadda 2 30 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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King Solomon
Presumably Satan, as the father of the lie, was fomenting his rebellious lies in heaven amongst his kindred angels long before Eve was seduced, but the rebellion did not become manifest in the material world until creatures in God's image, ie, humans, finally appeared.
Kinda hard to keep a secret from an omnipresent, omniscient (all-knowing) God, who knows the future.... (Ooops, another continuity error in the story.)
So why all this angst and punishment by God for a manifestation by Adam and Eve of this most natural human desire - the desire for self autonomy and being free to decide for ones self what to do with their life, as long as no harm is being done to anyone else? How could God possibly deny that right if he sees us as his father?
The old parrot line chirped by JWs is, "God wanted man to have free will, since the didn't want to make robots who HAD to worship and love Him".
No, that's EXACTLY what the story says: God created man without "wisdom" (the opposite of which in the Bible is "follishness"), i.e. he made them as PERFECT FOOLS. Call it child-like, naive, but the Bible itself describes how Eve was tempted to eat the fruit based on being "desirable to impart wisdom".
And that's another continuity error: how could fools be held responsible to for making a foolish decision? God comes off looking like the greater fool, who didn't want man to have or exercise their own sense of morality, AKA wisdom. He in essence DID want men to remain children, or robots.
The fact he screwed up and built a flawed robot reflects only on the maker, not the product....
Not to worry though: it's a rip-off, simply the local Hebraic version or rewriting of the same story as told in the Greek tale of Prometheus, who stole knowledge to give it to mankind, and paid a price for doing so when Zeus found out about the theft of knowledge (the symbol for knowledge is fire, flammeus).
Pandora has been replaced by Eve, who was the fall-girl in the Greek myth, and also the Mother of all humanity (remember her from Pandora's Box, taking the blame for releasing all evil into the World?). Ancient writers heavily shared and borrowed motifs when crafting their own creation mythologies.
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frankiespeakin
Good angels always obey Jehovah,,many have a full time jobs up in heaven just proclaiming Jehovah's holliness. Only bad angels disobey Jehovah and insist on thier own autonomy.
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King Solomon
Good angels always obey Jehovah,,many have a full time jobs up in heaven just proclaiming Jehovah's holliness.
Why am I picturing angels screaming how great YWHW is at the top of their angelic lungs, and somehow it's just not good enough for YHWH?
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frankiespeakin
And they never get tired like us humans they just keep sreaming there lungs inside and out "Jehovah Alone is Worthy to Be Praised" No time to think about doing anything else,, like the bad angels just going around starting trouble and trying to get other angels to join them and not do what Jehovah wants,, and to think for themselves.
Of course good and bad are determined by Jehovah if he says something is good or bad who are we to question him or come up with some other thoughts about what he says.
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EndofMysteries
If Adam and Eve were in the Garden of God, then 'cast down' to the earth below (other books of bible and such), people could be angels who rebelled against God and the fact that nobody on Earth knows 100% the truth, we are in the dense darkness those angels are in. This is hell because of the sufferings and darkness which refines our souls and at some point able to understand when our memory is restored what was wrong that we did, or we judged the humans and said we would not have done as they did so we had our memories wiped and born into flesh to experience the same thing and not elevate ourselves.
It's one of a dozen possibilities I've thought that would make sense and tie a few things together I've read from bible and other ancient documents.
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smiddy
To me this brings up the question of Gods partiality,compare the pain,suffering,death, experienced by humans, to that of the angels....their is no comparison
smiddy
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yadda yadda 2
frankiespeakin: if God's rule was so good in heaven for billions of years before Adam and Eve were created, then on what grounds could Satan claim that God's right to rule and the rightness of his rule are questionable, so much that god would have to remain hidden for the last 2,000 years? God could have just laughed Satan out of court, saying "you've existed for millions of years in the spirit realm and never complained about the rightness of my rule, so your claims are dismissed."
You are right King Solomon (wise are you?). Why would the whole human race be condemned because of the naivety of Eve, who was almost child-like in her experience. Eve was deceived, tricked, fooled by the serpent, the Bible says. It's against the laws of natural justice to harshly punish a child in the same way an adult would be punished. It's like a loving parent condemning a 10 year old and forever judging that 10 year olds future grandchildren as worthy of death because of the 10 year old's naive mistake.
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yadda yadda 2
frankiespeakin: if God's rule was so good in heaven for billions of years before Adam and Eve were created, then on what grounds could Satan claim that God's right to rule and the rightness of his rule are questionable, so much that god would have to remain hidden for the last 2,000 years? God could have just laughed Satan out of court, saying "you've existed for millions of years in the spirit realm and never complained about the rightness of my rule, so your claims are dismissed."
You are right King Solomon (wise are you?). Why would the whole human race be condemned because of the naivety of Eve, who was almost child-like in her experience. Eve was deceived, tricked, fooled by the serpent, the Bible says. It's against the laws of natural justice to harshly punish a child in the same way an adult would be punished. It's like a loving parent condemning a 10 year old and forever judging that 10 year olds future grandchildren as worthy of death because of the 10 year old's naive mistake.
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mP
Yadda:
The Bible is not about God being Good or just, he simply is not. Its about control. It doesnt matter how nice or good you are as long as you listen to Gods appointed leaders on earth the King and Priests. This fits perfectly with what actually happens and the judgemnt the bible tells in the OT. King David is a terrible murdering monster and yet he is a favourite. He obviously knows God cant harm him. All those claims about following gods laws because he is watching hardly scares him straight. The priests simply want you to listen obey and pay money too. In those days part of the scam involved free food, sorry sacrifices which they of course hlped themselves. They hated the other gods, because that was lost money and control for them. Church was not free it demanded money!