Just had a blow up with jw mom and she said the bible referenced angels being called gods, it that true? (page 2)

James Mixon

Not only are they called Gods but they also sing, youtube "God Angels

singing caught on tape". LOL

fulltimestudent

I suggest your mother is referring to Psalm 82. likely verse 6, quoting:

Psalm 82 (NIV)

A psalm of Asaph.

1 God presides in the great assembly;
he renders judgment among the “gods”:

2 “How long will you[a] defend the unjust
and show partiality to the wicked?[b]
3 Defend the weak and the fatherless;
uphold the cause of the poor and the oppressed.
4 Rescue the weak and the needy;
deliver them from the hand of the wicked.

5 “The ‘gods’ know nothing, they understand nothing.
They walk about in darkness;
all the foundations of the earth are shaken.

6 “I said, ‘You are “gods”;
you are all sons of the Most High.’
7 But you will die like mere mortals;
you will fall like every other ruler.”

8 Rise up, O God, judge the earth,
for all the nations are your inheritance.

Footnotes:

Psalm 82:2 The Hebrew is plural.
Psalm 82:2 The Hebrew has Selah (a word of uncertain meaning) here.----------------------------------------------------------------------------

And at this Blueletter Bible page, you can find Strong's discussion of the usage.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/Lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?strongs=H430&t=KJV

Question_Mans_interpretation

Sowhatnow grear point about the bible. I've never heard it put that way. I think my mom was trying to make the point that Jesus was an angel and that his reference as being a god in John 1:1 is no different than other references of other angels also being called gods. I think in sense she wanted to say Jesus was not a god.

DATA-DOG

There is no "biblical proof" ( hardy-har ) of Jesus being an angel. The whole Jesus=Michael is speculation upon guess-work, upon bias...

DD

Crazyguy

What she and many others do not know is the word used was Elohim which means gods, but Christians want you to think the Jews were always monotheistic so sometimes when its obvious that the scripture is not talking about the one and only true god Jehovah (lol) they inserted the word angels instead of gods.

SonoftheTrinity

Data Dog it is significant however that the Ebionites, those Jewish Christians who chose to follow Jesus as their Greatest Sage rather than Christianity, did in fact view Jesus as a human manifestation of the Archangel Michael. This is coming from a man who speaks and reads Hebrew and can't stand Jehovah's Witnesses.

DATA-DOG

1) What Terry said.

2) It's more correct to say that the "Jesus = Michael" teaching of the WTBTS is speculation. It does not even meet the WTBTS's own published criteria of truth.

3) What Terry said.

DD

Clambake

In the Old Testament you have a plurality to god. God often refers to himself as more than one being. The Old Testament also has a number of contradictions about not being able to see or hear god, but in the Old Testament you have people who have directly seen and heard god.

Now in the Old Testament you have a figure called “the angel of the lord “which is identified as god, being with god and god’s heavenly ruler.

Contradictions??? Yes. Does anyone fully understand it ?? No.

In the new testament when john says “ in the beginning, there was the word, and the word was with god, and the word was god “, do you think the author thought of Jesus as god as an important person or do you think believes Jesus was the manifestation of god in the flesh ?? Considering the next line is “no one has seen the father only the son”…………..I think it is pretty obvious there is a belief that Jesus is the angel of the lord from the Old Testament.

The figure that was identified as god and being with god.

Now a well trained JW is going to be all “ Well, how can that be , blah blah blah “ . I just assume there are spiritual things that beyond the realm of human understanding.

Now if you want to say the bible is complete bullshit , that is fine but the idea of Jesus existing with his father as Yahwah, Jehovah, LORD of the old testament is pretty clear.

I find once you study the bible and study the bible with the DUBs, it seems the DUBs are more on a mission to disprove the bible and they are so stupid they don’t even see it.

Crazyguy

One point that need to be brought out is in all the religious beliefs of the surrounding area of Israel they all believed in several God's. In the pantheon of the babylonians and cannaanite s one of the God's rose up to help the creator God and in doing so gets rewarded by becoming God of God's king of the God's. Marduk defeats the Dragon Tiamot and so does Baal Hadad defeating Lotan. Jehovah does the same defeating Rahab and then Jesus defeats the Dragon in Revelations. So by all accounts Jesus is a lesser God that gets elevated by defeating the Dragon then death just like Hadad. It's just a recycled story originally started in Sumeria.

Just had a blow up with jw mom and she said the bible referenced angels being called gods, it that true?

Psalm 82 (NIV)

A psalm of Asaph.

Footnotes:

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