I apologize tfs. I didn't mean to belitte your view. There was just to much to itemize if I were to point out everything. That would take some time. I'm sorry. ):
Revelation 11:1-4
by Smitty 24 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Smitty
tfs,
You said, "3) Also, it appears both Temples had a PREVIOUS existence where gross sin was practiced, an abomination and "fornication", and forceably had a "curse" from God imposed upon it. This is not so easy to see at first. But here is where Rev. 11:1-4 becomes very important in describing this previous situation. The "Temple" that did not "measure" up to God's original standards. We see this also in Ezekiel's vision of a temple that did not originally meet God's standards. (Eze. 43:6-10; Rev. 11:1,2; 22:3) "How do you see that both had PREVIOUS existence of gross sin? The temple that is spoken of in Eze 43 is partially talking about the Jewish temple and their rulers, not God's Holy temple.
Eze 43
"Then the man brought me to the gate facing east, and I saw the glory of the God of Israel coming from the east. His voice was like the roar of rushing waters, and the land was radiant with his glory.
The vision I saw was like the vision I had seen when he came to destroy the city and like the visions I had seen by the Kebar River, and I fell facedown. The glory of the LORD entered the temple through the gate facing east. Then the Spirit lifted me up and brought me into the inner court, and the glory of the LORD filled the temple. While the man was standing beside me, I heard someone speaking to me from inside the temple. He said: "Son of man, this is the place of my throne and the place for the soles of my feet. This is where I will live among the Israelites forever. The house of Israel will never again defile my holy name--neither they nor their kings--by their prostitution and the lifeless idols of their kings at their high places. When they placed their threshold next to my threshold and their doorposts beside my doorposts, with only a wall between me and them, they defiled my holy name by their detestable practices. So I destroyed them in my anger. Now let them put away from me their prostitution and the lifeless idols of their kings, and I will live among them forever. "Son of man, describe the temple to the people of Israel, that they may be ashamed of their sins. Let them consider the plan, and if they are ashamed of all they have done, make known to them the design of the temple--its arrangement, its exits and entrances--its whole design and all its regulations and laws. Write these down before them so that they may be faithful to its design and follow all its regulations. "This is the law of the temple: All the surrounding area on top of the mountain will be most holy. Such is the law of the temple. "These are the measurements of the altar in long cubits, that cubit being a cubit and a handbreadth : Its gutter is a cubit deep and a cubit wide, with a rim of one span around the edge. And this is the height of the altar: From the gutter on the ground up to the lower ledge it is two cubits high and a cubit wide, and from the smaller ledge up to the larger ledge it is four cubits high and a cubit wide. The altar hearth is four cubits high, and four horns project upward from the hearth. The altar hearth is square, twelve cubits long and twelve cubits wide. The upper ledge also is square, fourteen cubits long and fourteen cubits wide, with a rim of half a cubit and a gutter of a cubit all around. The steps of the altar face east." Then he said to me, "Son of man, this is what the Sovereign LORD says: These will be the regulations for sacrificing burnt offerings and sprinkling blood upon the altar when it is built: You are to give a young bull as a sin offering to the priests, who are Levites, of the family of Zadok, who come near to minister before me, declares the Sovereign LORD. You are to take some of its blood and put it on the four horns of the altar and on the four corners of the upper ledge and all around the rim, and so purify the altar and make atonement for it. You are to take the bull for the sin offering and burn it in the designated part of the temple area outside the sanctuary. "On the second day you are to offer a male goat without defect for a sin offering, and the altar is to be purified as it was purified with the bull. When you have finished purifying it, you are to offer a young bull and a ram from the flock, both without defect. You are to offer them before the LORD, and the priests are to sprinkle salt on them and sacrifice them as a burnt offering to the LORD. "For seven days you are to provide a male goat daily for a sin offering; you are also to provide a young bull and a ram from the flock, both without defect. For seven days they are to make atonement for the altar and cleanse it; thus they will dedicate it. At the end of these days, from the eighth day on, the priests are to present your burnt offerings and fellowship offerings on the altar. Then I will accept you, declares the Sovereign LORD."This is where the confusion is. The bold does not prove that this is all one temple simultaneously. The tenses are being intermingled
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AGuest
Dearest Smitty, may you have peace... and may I respond? Thank you!
By the spirit of my Father, the Holy One of Israel, JAH OF ARMIES, by means of His Son and Christ, my Lord, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH, I wish to say to you that:
The 'temple' that is seen here by John and spoken of as being "measured" is the Body of Christ, just as my Lord referred to HIS body as a temple, in a fleshly sense, so to his
'Body', which is made up of MANY 'members' is the TRUE 'temple' of God.1 Corinthians 3:16
Ephesians 2:19-21This "measuring" that John speaks of is what Paul meant when he said of the 'judgment' of the Household of God, Israel... "now if it starts with US...". It is according to such 'judgment' that we are 'chosen', for nothing is hidden from the One appointed to choose:
John 15:16
John 1:47, 48
Hebrews 4:12
Revelation 19:13The "courtyard" of the temple... or those who are later brought in as a part of Israel, by means of doing 'good' to Christ's brothers, are NOT 'measured' in the same way as the 'temple' is measured. I refer you to the model of the 'earthly' temple COMPOUND at Jeruslam and the features of its various courtyards: Courtyard of the Gentiles, Courtyward of the Women, Courtyard of Israel, Courtyard of Priests, and the temple itself with its holy and Most Holy).
This represents:
1. Courtyard of Gentiles - those NOT Israel but welcomed into the 'house' by means of those IN the Covenant;
2. Courtyard of Women - those of fleshly Israel, relegated to a 'lesser' position in the 'house', to their shame and chagrin;
3. Courtyard of Israel - those of fleshly Israel AND the nations, who are not in a COVENANT but who BECOME Israel, by means of 'doing good' to Christ's brothers;
4. Courtyard of Priests - those of 144,000 and 'great crowd' who become 'a nation of kings and priests' by means of being in a COVENANT with God, by means of the blood of Christ;
5. Holy - the Apostles
6. Most Holy - the High Priest (my Lord)
7. Above the Ark of the Covenant - the 'throne' of my Father, the Holy One of Israel.
What is this 'measurement'? Is it being found perfect in flesh, without sin or transgression OF THE FLESH? No, for such sin and transgression can be and is 'covered' by the blood of Christ. It is the measurement of the HEART of that temple, the 'sanctuary'... the innermost part, the place wherein lies the 'ark' of the Covenant, from above which speaks my Father, through His Word, my Lord. Thus, the HEART of each member of the Body of Christ, the 'living stones in the temple of God'... are being measured... as to whether they are 'clean', without hyposcrisy, hatred... and deceit.
I, myself, SJ, have spoken it to you, just as I heard it and received it from my Lord.
Again, I bid you peace.
A slave of Christ,
SJ
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circe2
Willpower,
Then NONE of the little arguments over who was who, when such & such happened, how many this, how big that, you have to do this & that & still more of this MEANS ANYTHING. (insert the bible quote that fits this) That is why Jesus said, come to me my load is light.
I agree with your thoughts Will Power.Here is a not often quoted phrase attributed to Jesus:
Jesus said,
"If your leaders say to you, 'Look, the (Father's) kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.
If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you.
Rather, the kingdom is within you and it is outside you..."
Gospel of Thomas
circe
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Will Power
Its been awhile since I've read the Gospel of Thomas.
Very Interesting....artie johnson peeking through tall grass....