Caliber, beautiful, simply beautiful!
Unconditional Love-How would you describe it?
by rip van winkle 239 Replies latest members private
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rip van winkle
(Caliber- you beat me to the punch with that verse of "Love One Another" poem!!!! One of my favourites!!! He also said:"Wisdom ceases to be wisdom when it becomes too proud to weep, too grave to laugh, and too selfish to seek other than itself.")
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Caliber said : " But in humans is it that you create love by teaching it or simply are you aiding in creating a mental outlook by nurturing love or neglecting it ?"
I thought it was a Rhetorical question, Caliber. I think you answered it. An individual person's experience and perception of love is based on whether or not they experienced healthy, nurturing love or whether they received the neglecting "love"- which of course is really not love at all. For some, it is difficult to believe that there doesn't have to be something paid in return, because there was always a price to be paid. But I do believe that it is more than just an emotional feeling of attachment and I do believe it is both love by 'teaching' and 'creating' of a 'mental outlook ' ---------------- TD- I'm sorry that I missed your point. I thought I had already adressed it. -------------------------------- 00Dad- I agree that the word "Unconditional" proceeding the word "Love", is the line that has been drawn in the sand. However, whatever name or phrase is used to categorize"UL" it is still something that can and does, in the healthiest of ways exist. ----------------------------- KSol- I do admire the ease in your ability to turn a word or a phrase into pages of discourse. I also respect you and your firmly positioned feet on the subject matter. Though, I am often left wondering why you are such a stickler and so exacting when people use certain phrases. I don't know who coined the phrase "Unconditional Love". I do understand what you and others have posted. Yes, the term itself is a misnomer. But what that word phrase has come to define, again, is not love without boundaries. ( Many here as 00ad and I have repeatedly said so) ----------- And how does someone describe what the word "love" means to them? And the degree to which they love? And is it quantifiable? By whose standards? Is love expressed differently by people in different ways? Isn't the emotion of love and the meaning of it defined by their own personal unique experience?
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still thinking
Don't get me wrong: it's healthy to have the DESIRE to experience unconditional love, or to seek relationships with those who are likely to give and receive love with few strings attached, but it's setting expectations WAY TOO HIGH; people are likely to be disappointed if it's not achieved. It's one of those life situations where you may NOT want to test the limits of other's love (as an answer to a question that you really don't want to know).
The good news is that MOST people would claim to want to give/get love unconditionally, and the DESIRE to know unconditional love is a worthy goal to have (esp if it pertains to love of one's children, family, etc), as long as people realize not to be too disappointed if they don't attain it....King Solomon
I am confused by this...I know, I'm easily confused....LOL
We are discussing unconditional love, yet this is referring to wanting the desire to experience it...to get it without strings attached, setting expectations, and being disappointed when you don't get it.
Unconditional love is NOT about getting...it is about giving. It is not about allowing yourself to be abused.
When you love yourself unconditionally you will not allow this to happen. You CANNOT love anyone else unconditionally unless you love yourself uncondtionally first.
I've read examples given here about someone you love pulling a gun on you and threatening your life. That's pretty extreme, but even in this case the opposite to love is hate. You cannot switch off your feelings for someone because of their actions. I agree that person would not deserve your love. But unconditional love is not necessarily deserved or earnt. If this was your child that did this, that you loved unconditionally, you would still call the police, and you would do everything in your power to protect society and yourself. But, it is still your child.
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caliber
You cannot switch off your feelings for someone because of their actions. I agree that person would not deserve your love.
So therefore unconditional love is more like a dimmer switch than a off- on light switch
The fact that we yearn for U.L. shows that it is a worthwhile goal even if it proves difficult or near to impossible to achieve
it's branches spread everywhere
Romantic love sweeps you away with promises, illusions and delusions. Unconditional love wants nothing in return
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King Solomon
It's no wonder people here respond to Kahlil Gibran so strongly: he was a Lebanese poet heavily influenced by biblical poetry, and IMO, he writes far better stuff than the pedestrian poetry found in the OT. My favorite example of Biblical bad poetry (reflecting the shepherd roots of the Bible) being the Song of Solomon 4:
Solomon’s Love Expressed
1 “How beautiful you are, my darling,
How beautiful you are!
Your eyes are like doves behind your veil;
Your hair is like a flock of goats
That have descended from Mount Gilead.2 “Your teeth are like a flock of newly shorn ewes
Which have come up from their washing,
All of which bear twins,
And not one among them has lost her young.3 “Your lips are like a scarlet thread,
And your mouth is lovely.
Your temples are like a slice of a pomegranate
Behind your veil.4 “Your neck is like the tower of David,
Built with rows of stones
On which are hung a thousand shields,
All the round shields of the mighty men.5 “Your two breasts are like two fawns,
Twins of a gazelle
Which feed among the lilies.6 “Until the cool of the day
When the shadows flee away,
I will go my way to the mountain of myrrh
And to the hill of frankincense.7 “You are altogether beautiful, my darling,
And there is no blemish in you.RVW said:
KSol- I do admire the ease in your ability to turn a word or a phrase into pages of discourse. I also respect you and your firmly positioned feet on the subject matter. Though, I am often left wondering why you are such a stickler and so exacting when people use certain phrases. I don't know who coined the phrase "Unconditional Love". I do understand what you and others have posted. Yes, the term itself is a misnomer. But what that word phrase has come to define, again, is not love without boundaries. ( Many here as 00ad and I have repeatedly said so)
No need to "coin" the phrase, as it uses two pre-existing words: "unconditional" and "love". Combining those words doesn't change their individual meaning.
I didn't create the rules of communication, but the bottom line is if you want to be understood properly and get your point across with minimal confusion, you must use proper words, as defined by the rules of whatever language you are speaking; going "off the reservation" is done at one's own risk.
I used to work as a doctor, and I have to be VERY CAREFUL in my line of work to pick your words properly so as to avoid confusion (specifically, to avoid the patient misinterpreting what you say, creating heightened/unrealistic expectations). In some ways, I think I'm more of a lawyer than a doctor, as that's how critical word selection is to healthcare providers these days in order to avoid litigation.
ST said:
I've read examples given here about someone you love pulling a gun on you and threatening your life. That's pretty extreme, but even in this case the opposite to love is hate.
I've heard it said the opposite of love is not hate, but indifference. That rings truer to me, because simply replacing one passionate emotion with another means someone hasn't emotionally detached and divested from the relationship and moved on. You didn't love the person before you knew them, you just didn't KNOW them, and we don't love things we're not even aware of....
It's the same concept reflected in the idea that you cannot be an atheist yet hate God: those are logically inconsistent beliefs/emotions That doesn't mean people cannot honestly BELIEVE they're atheists and BELIEVE they hate God, but the rest of us may wonder if THEY really know what they are, and aren't self-deluded on one point or the other....
You cannot switch off your feelings for someone because of their actions.
I can't? Really? And you know this how?
People CAN and DO, all the time. Some are better at it than others, and if they make a habit of it, they are likely to end up either in prison or as a CEO or Presidential candidate. Maybe YOU can't, but there are many people who do....
Caliber said:
The fact that we yearn for U.L. shows that it is a worthwhile goal even if it proves difficult or near to impossible to achieve it's branches spread everywhere
Well, I know a group of 7 mil people who are yearning for everlasting life, but just because they want it doesn't mean they're going to get it. Coming out of a cult which promised you the Moon and a bag of chips, you'd think you'd have learned that life isn't about what you want abd yearn for....
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caliber
He Ain't Heavy, He's My Brother ...if you can feel & understand these words in your heart.. you'll already know the true nature and essence of U.L.
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still thinking
I've heard it said the opposite of love is not hate, but indifference
true...I didn't express that very well did I...LOL
You cannot switch off your feelings for someone because of their actions.
I can't? Really? And you know this how?
People CAN and DO, all the time. Some are better at it than others, and if they make a habit of it, they are likely to end up either in prison or as a CEO or Presidential candidate. Maybe YOU can't, but there are many people who do....
Ok...I will rephrase that too.....I cannot switch off my feelings that easily. I don't want to speak for anyone else. But that still has nothing to do with unconditional love. In fact. It is an example of the opposite.
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caliber
I've heard it said the opposite of love is not hate, but indifference
What is love?”
“The total absence of fearLove and fear are the only emotions we as human entities are able to express. All the others are just sub-categorical emotions. For example, on love’s side there is joy, peacefulness, happiness, forgiveness, and a host of others. On the other hand, fear reflects: hate, depression, guilt, inadequacy, discontentment, prejudice, anger, attack
As with magnets you are either drawn by love or repelled by fear
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King Solomon
Here's a book by Irvin Yalom, MD, a clinical psychiatrist who has a really beautiful of writing about memorable clinical cases he treated over the years (back in the day when psychiatrists used to TALK, and not just prescribe meds, due to managed care pressures). The first story is about a woman in her 70's who clung to unconditional love for someone decades before (it was a fling), well past the time most would've given up and moved on. She remained trapped, a hostage of her own "unconditional love" for this person (who had forgotten about her).
Yalom's book is named after her situation, and the role he played in helping her move beyond her bondage: it's called "Love's Executioner"
http://www.amazon.com/Loves-Executioner-Psychotherapy-Perennial-Classics/dp/0060958340
Worth a read (check your local library)....
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Night Owl
How would I describe it?
It does not exist.
NightOwl
