nicolaou, re: the void the universe expands into, one recent finding has it, that the universe's ACCELERATED expansion is fueled by dark matter that is absorbed as the expansion takes place, new energy coming in all the time, from the void the universe expands into. Latent energy is a property of the void, hence virtual fluctuations preceding the beginning. (Gen1:1 discuuses the beginning of the same physical heavens, wrong though it is.) Please read Sir Roger Penrose, space, time existing before our universe's beginning seriously.
"In the beginning, God created the Heavens and the Earth . ."
by nicolaou 118 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
-
-
Viviane
nicolaou, re: the void the universe expands into, one recent finding has it, that the universe's ACCELERATED expansion is fueled by dark matter that is absorbed as the expansion takes place, new energy coming in all the time, from the void the universe expands into. Latent energy is a property of the void, hence virtual fluctuations preceding the beginning. (Gen1:1 discuuses the beginning of the same physical heavens, wrong though it is.) Please read Sir Roger Penrose, space, time existing before our universe's beginning seriously.
Not one single word of that is in any way a "recent finding" or "biblical". That's just a jumbled nonsensical word salad of physics terms.
-
prologos
rather than unsubstantiated critique, which contributes nothing*, tackle the points point by point starting with Penrose's detailed 'pre-beginning' work.
* There is your definition of "NOTHING"
-
Viviane
rather than unsubstantiated critique, which contributes nothing*, tackle the points point by point starting with Penrose's detailed 'pre-beginning' work.
So you want me to critique your word salad by starting with Roger Penrose? Why would I do that? That doesn't make any sense.
Roger Penrose has a hypothesis with no proof, a mathematical model (with no observation to back it up) regarding the inflation of the early universe. He thinks that he has found evidence, gravitational wave in the CMBR, that show that time and space existed before the big bang and the universe is going through one of many cycles. One central tenet to his theory is that the late state universe will look very similar to the early universe, meaning particles will decay entirely and lose mass. In Penrose's model, the universe is expanding into existing time and space. It's a controversial and unproven model with many things still not matching observed reality.
So, in your first sentence, you went off the rails. There is no evidence that dark matter fuels expansion. In fact, it's gravitationally attractive and holds things together. Dark matter being absorbed? Absorbed where and by what? No one has even actually detected it yet, so saying it get's absorbed and turned into energy is so off base it's not even wrong.
What are you claiming is the void? If you are relying on Penrose, his hypothesis requires time and space already exist. Is that what you are claiming is the void? What do you mean by that? Nothing? Something? What is latent energy? Virtual fluctuations? Do you perhaps mean vacumn energy and virtual particles? Because those ARE actual things, but not the things you describe. What does any of this have to do with Genesis? Why are you jumbling word salad together and claiming it is fact? Why are you taking Sir Roger Penrose's hypothesis and pretending it is fact?
There is your definition of "NOTHING"
Yes, your word salad was exactly that.
-
Fisherman
Okay. Does Heaven have a beginning according to the Bible?
God is the only eternal, uncreated reality "according to the Bible."
-
Viviane
God is the only eternal, uncreated reality "according to the Bible."
The Bible never says God was uncreated.
-
Fisherman
If you are trying to compare or convert to physical space or location to define what heavens is, In terms of understanding what the spirit heavens is, some Bible verses say that it stands for "Almighty" God himself or his throne. Should you conclude that the spirit heavens is part of the substance of God? or Did God create heaven later on for the sake of spirit creatures and for other reasons?-If God was dependent on anything, He could not be able to be Almighty God.
Okay. Does Heaven have a beginning according to the Bible?
-
Viviane
If you are trying to compare or convert to physical space or location to define what heavens is, In terms of understanding what the spirit heavens is, some Bible verses say that it stands for God himself or his throne.
I wasn't, I just simply pointing out the Bible never says God was uncreated. Also, no one understands what spirit is. No one can tell us what it is made of, what it is, how to detect it... nothing. Using the word "spirit" to explain anything is simply pretending to know while using undefined words.
-
Fisherman
I wasn't,
I wasn't responding to you. My post was a continuation of my response to Nicolaou. Since I wasn't able to amend my first post to him with the related information, I had to post the additional information on a separate post. Besides that, the term Almighty says it all.
-
nicolaou
Fisherman, I vaguely remember scriptures that might support your position on the difference between the physical heavens and a 'spiritual' heavens. So what? Can you not see that resorting to the Bible to answer the question doesn't work?
Quote the Bible and lose the argument; the Bible is the claim, not the proof.