If Russell Were Alive Today He'd Be DF'd For (page 3)

You Know

Russell wouldn't even recognize the world let alone the Watchtower that he founded. Keep in mind that Russell and those first Bible Students originally got together less than 10 years after the Civil War. That was a long time ago. It helps put things in perspective though to keep in mind how radically the world has changed. Compared with those changes the Watchtower has remained remarkably constant, whether that's good or bad. / You Know

butalbee

If Russell Were Alive Today He'd Be DF'd For: fornication, adultery. He had an affair w/ his maid. I read this at the geocities heartland website.

YoYoMama

I know that yoy have to defend the man who started your high controll group,

I don't have to, but I hate people that slander others.

If any other person had done the things that he did you would not have excused them.

Only if it was today and they had access to the truth.

But if you really think about it, how could sombody have such controll over a congregation numbering in the tens of thousands, and not have seriously intemidated his apposes from with in. Either that or he would ahve been able to persuade his opposers to submit to his authority, as simple as that.

That is some faulty reasoning. Look at the example of Jesus. Or how about the Bible account of Moses. Russell had excellent qualities that were very attractive to others. Humbleness was one of them.

Compared with those changes the Watchtower has remained remarkably constant, whether that's good or bad.

You got that right.

If Russell Were Alive Today He'd Be DF'd For: fornication, adultery. He had an affair w/ his maid. I read this at the geocities heartland website.

Oh since it's at geocities heartland it must be true. They are all knowing. Give me a break!

Patriot

I agree with YK with the exception of the WT being "Constant". Maybe constantly changing their minds on important issues, oh thats right it's called "Tacking".

Butalbee.....damn!..Who's that?

jerome

Yo Yo

Where do I start.

You said that you dont have to defend your organisation, well...
Ok if you say so.

The watchtower has not remained the same over the yeras at all.

As far as I know its official view on the matter is that the organisation is "progressive."

By saying that the organisation has remained the same would be to speak independently of official watchtower opinion. And you know what they think about independent thinking.

As far as I know they recieve "New Light" and they eradicate any pratices or teachings which may be unfavourable to God.

It would be more reasonable to say that they stay the same in certain respects but they progress in others.

These would include,

1) Thinking everyone else is wrong

2) Ignoring factual evidence which proves the opposite of the above

3) Rewriting their own history when it best suits them

4) Blantly Hypocritical

5) Using apostates as a scape goat whenever they have made a mistake that they cannot hide or explain

6) Getting Consistantly better at controlling peoples thought processes

and the list goes on. None of these things have changed over the years.

But thay have done some good things like:

1) Prove the existence of false religion.

2) Prove that false prophets will come and claim to speak for jesus

3) Prove that false prophets are to be avoided at all costs

4) Prove that false prophets are not from God.

5) Prove that you should not follow those who claim that Christ is in the "inner chamber"

etc...

Russel shurley could not have fortold these changes, what did he ever get right in the first place?

metatron

His relationship(s) with other women made his wife angry.

Of course, he may not have actually penetrated Rose Ball or any
other woman - the whole thing gets a little 'Clintonesque'.
- Maria didn't explicitly accuse him of adultery - is having
a young girl sitting on your lap, fooling around with her,
adultery?

metatron

YoYoMama

Thinking everyone else is wrong

Actually, It's: no one else is doing God's Will.

Ignoring factual evidence which proves the opposite of the above

There is no evidence that others are doing God's Will, not as described by Jesus.

Rewriting their own history when it best suits them

You're just repeating the dribbel that apostates have thrown at you.

Blantly Hypocritical

This accusation does not surprise me one bit, I mean what is there to expect from apostates that hate Jehovah's people?

Using apostates as a scape goat whenever they have made a mistake that they cannot hide or explain

Whatever.

Getting Consistantly better at controlling peoples thought processes

If by "controlling peoples thought processes" you mean promoting Bible truths and encouraging its members to do God's Will wholeheartedly, then I say they're the best!

Russel shurley could not have fortold this, what did he ever get right?

Russell knew he had Jehovah's backing and that above all the scriptures should be researched to learn the truth. He never said he knew it all. He got many things right. He knew the gentile times would end in 1914. He knew that God was not part of a trinity. He knew that Jehovah does not punish evildoers by burning in hell for eternity. That's just a few obvious examples.

hooberus

Yo YoMama believes that Russell was a humble man. this is probably due to reading Watchtowers from recent years which try to paint him as humble.

1. Russell however considered himself only to be the FDS. So, he believed tat Jesus was personally speaking about him in Matthew 24.

2. Russell also considered himself only to be the angel to the Laodecian church mentioned in the book of Revelation!

3. *** In an issue of the Bible Suudents Monthly in the year 1915, which I believe Russell would have had to approve for pulication an arcticle appears "How pastor Russell ranks in Greatness" This arcticle is filled with outrageous glorification of Russell.

I am not a former witness.

AlanF

Russell was about as non-humble as anyone can get, and he would surely condemn today's JW leaders for disagreeing with many of his most cherished teachings. About 1909 Russell wrote in the Watch Tower that anyone who left off reading his Studies in the Scriptures books would go off into darkness within two years. Since the Society quit using those books in the late 1920s, he certainly would say that today's JW organization is in great spiritual darkness. But that's like the pot calling the kettle black, since many of Russell's ideas were as goofy or even more so than the goofiest of today's JW doctrines.

A particularly good example of how Russell would likely have reacted to certain changes is his views on pyramidology. Even before he started publishing Zion's Watch Tower in 1879 he was heavy into pyramidology, as were his Adventist buddies. Following the popular Evangelical Lutheran preacher Joseph Seiss, they called the Great Pyramid of Gizeh "God's Great Stone Witness" and Russell used its measurements to confirm his ideas on Bible chronology, especially those which he thought confirmed his precious 1914 date. He was particularly proud of a long chapter on pyramidology in volume three of Studies, even going so far as to get an endorsement from Piazzi Smyth, the British Astronomer Royale and one of the biggest promoters of pyramidology in Europe. Smyth published various editions of his book The Great Pyramid beginning in 1864. The 1880 edition has been reprinted many times even into the 1990s. In late 1928 Rutherford rejected pyramidology completely and called it a tool of Satan. Many, many Bible Students quit the Watchtower organization because of it, including the Scotsman Morton Edgar who had been the single greatest supporter of Russell's ideas on pyramidology. Edgar and his brother John had gone to Egypt in 1909 and made lots of measurements on the Great Pyramid. John Edgar died in 1910, but Morton summarized their findings in two books called Great Pyramid Passages published in 1910 and 1913. These were distributed widely among the Bible Students, and Morton Edgar became one of Russell's closest confidants in Britain. In 1929 Edgar delivered a scathing denunciation of Rutherford because of the reversal on pyramidology. From these facts it would be astounding if Russell would have gone along with Rutherford's rejection of his ideas.

Russell tolerated no dissension, and this too is proof that he was arrogant. He taught that he was the "key" whom God used to reveal many secrets in "the time of the end", and even privately accepted the title "faithful and wise servant" from his supporters, which meant that he felt that he personally fulfilled a biblical prophecy. He even claimed to be virtually inspired, because he taught that in practice he could not possibly be wrong.

AlanF

alamb

Thanks Alan for the clarifications on the Pyramid link to the basic structure that started it all.

Someone said the other day, "I think we followed the wrong Russell" alluding to J. Stuart Russell, whose writings of the 1800's are being reassessed today.

hmmmmmmmmm.............

"Was it a mess or was it an attempt of a man to find answers to life's questions? He was researching just like you do, but now we call it a mess, why? because we know the truth thanks to the Faithful and Discreet slave."????? He claimed to be the FDS in his own right. Why would he have been looking for answers if he were God's channel of communication to the masses in Egyptian tombs?

If Russell Were Alive Today He'd Be DF'd For

Share this