by tresdecu 21 Replies latest jw friends
We've had:
1) No more C.O. rumor
2) 2 Day convention rumor
3) Sparlock
4) Conti Case
5) Anonymous hacking the WT
6) Sign Language Masturbation Videos
These are the big ones I can think of off the top of my head right now....I guess I'm just frustrated that nothing really seems to shake the WT....other than us posting about it for a week.
Your Thoughts?
Gog of Magog, the Types and Anti types
The Conti case is in a league of its own. The effects of that will rumble on for decades!
But you're right, so far it's been a fantastic year for egg on the face at Brooklyn!
Cedars
But you're right, so far it's been a fantastic year for egg on the face at Brooklyn!
Cedars, I respectfully disagree. The Big Boys at WTS are laughing their asses off at those rumors. I even wondered if they started the rumor about the end of the CO arrangement to smoke out people who were talking about it publicly. (Who brought it up here?)
The only issue mentioned by tresdecu that will def make a difference is the Conti case. But the diff it will make is that there will be a crash course on damage control and new instructions for handling these (and perhaps) any judicial matters. And it will set the precedent for pending abuse cases and there is a heap of $$$ going to be syphoned off by the lawyers, just as happened to the Catholic Church. But it will not affect JWs. How many of them know anything about the past big settlement that took place about 10 years ago and made the Network News on Dateline (or one of those shows)? And those who do know of such things, consider it an attack by Satan's seed. Yes, $11MILLION is a lot of money, but they have MILLIONS in cash plus all the property. They'll feel the pain, but all things will continue as like before.
Respectfully,
Doc
DesirousOfChange - As to the Conti case, I guess time will tell on that one. However, I can see the fallout from this case being felt for many years to come. Don't underestimate how many lawsuits will follow on the coattails of this one, and how these will steadily erode the Society both financially and in terms of its credibility. Don't forget there is tangible evidence that the Society was already starting to count its pennies BEFORE the Conti verdict. Financially they're not invincible, and the money has to run out eventually - even if we're still a long way off from that point at this moment.
As to everything else, I personally don't think the Brooklyn big-wigs are quite so cynical as to be laughing their asses off. I think they're extremely image conscious, as demonstrated by their frantic attempts to censor YouTube. They've also bought into their own spin, and believe it's their divine calling to promote the organization and its legacy at all costs, even if it means bending the truth. I believe Sparlock was a major embarrassment for them, and they won't be smiling that the whole deaf community on YouTube is likely now aware of the crazy JW teachings on masturbation. It makes them look silly, and cults hate to look silly. In that respect, 2012 has been a great year.
Cedars
I have to agree with Cedars, very embarrassing for the WB&TS. I doubt they are laughing, but a lot of palmfacing is going on.
Kojack
When I think of these stories and cases I think of the people stood atop barns in 1914, waiting to be scooped up by Jesus....... It did not happen, but they didnt all leave. This says much about the NEED for these beliefs... much more powerful than the belief in these beliefs.
This 'need' is harder to break, for it is not based on reason or logic and therefore contrary facts and figures are diluted in value. This need is founded for many by the emotional and psychological want for something more.
Answers are available, it is 2012. But it takes effort to find them. You cant fit astro physics, abiogenesis, evolution, string theory and the multitude of other beautiful answers into a pamphlet or a 6 month, one hour a week study. However you can fit a heap of magic and superstition, mixed in with some uneducated deciphering of ancient texts from a desert people. In reality BOTH of these options provide a plug for the gap, the need for answers. It is nothing more than conveniance and comfort. Would the old me go to the library to see when Babylon was destroyed in a history book, or simply accept 607 as correct? Would someone still a JW now take their family to visit the neanderthals remains and human ancestor remains in a museum to seek their authenticity and place in world history.... OR avoid that area of the museum on a trip? (By the way, how creepy is it.. the JW's are ready waiting for other JW's at our museum entrances. THAT is how policed we once were!)
For as long as people will be content to consume what they are told.... such transmitters of fluff will exist and survive. Saying all this, the WT are different in my mind. Most religions shrug their shoulders about the future, especially the very near future. The WT have laid all their cards out on the table... its a cheap trick to get more people around the table in less time, but with higher risk of being caught out. It takes real quick handy work, adjusting the cards into a 'new light'.. but they have promised too much, too soon and in the next few decades it will either be once again unrecognisable to how it is now, or diminished.
Then again, what the bollocks do I know. Long live Zeus.
Snare x
Cedars, you may be right on about the Conti case if it sets a precedence for other abuse cases waiting in the shadows. IF the WTS can be held liable on any of these to the tune of a couple MIL each. WOW! Even 100 cases @ $4MIL each (1/2 the Conti settlement)? They should be worried.
Still, will any of these things have any affect on the R&F JW? A person has to go looking for these things like Sparlock, ASL videos and most of them simply don't do that. I haven't found any JW that was aware of the Conti case before I mentioned it to them. And it did make some major news agency headlines as it hit the same time as the Penn State/Sandusky verdict. Now if a JW is questioning things and is searching the Internet late at night, perhaps these are a couple of added points, but only if someone is already looking at things in a negative light.
I heard NOTHING negative about Sparlock from JWs. My mom thought it was great. "Too bad they didn't have things like this to help parents back when I was raising you kids!" They lap up whatever utter BS the WTS produces. Right food at the right time!
I was visiting her for the holiday and went to her meeting as the CO was there. (Stifle the gag reflex.) The service talk was about "Sacrifice". It boiled down to giving your valuable things. Of course TIME in FS and building projects were mentioned, but even she saw it as another plea for MONEY. The old timers are not used to hearing this message. In the past they stressed NO CHARGE -- FREE ADMISSION -- etc. Now they have 3 or 4 different contribution boxes in every KH, and they are constantly ratifying a per-publisher "donation" to the Society. CO insurance. CO cars. CO apartment.
So, I think it will have to be the money thing. Huge settlements may cause things to start to crumble from the inside. If it results in more pleading and strong-arming for money, then some folks might sit up and take notice. One can only hope.
[Edited to add that if Anonymous ever hacks onto something critical or if some Big Shot Bethlite leaks something very damaging, that may lead to some fallout.]
Doc
I agree with you tresdecu and it's frustrating.
If it was announced that the C.O. arrangement and 3 day district conventions were being discontinued, or even the new smaller magazines,or changing the way they do the preaching work - Witnesses would be excited about it - it would mean that Jehovah is speeding things up and we're closer to the end.
The Sparlock video - every witness that I've spoken to so far thinks its fabulous.
I don't know any Witnesses that know anything about the Candice Conti case. My family only knows about it because I brought it up, and even then my mom has been careful to not look too much into it. At the very worst, they believe it's Satan trying to smear Jehovah's name.
And Witnesses are impossible to reason with. I was having a conversation with a good friend because she's been "worried" about me, and basically she said what I think is the opinion of every witness: Even if there are things that are wrong and things you don't agree with, you stay for the good that IS there. (And this is someone who disagrees with a lot of things - she has no problem with gay people, loves tattoos, etc)
I was always hoping that with the internet and easy access to information that we have today, these things would create more of a stir than they have.
To me, it's not so much what affects the big guys at the top in a private room, but the effect things have on the average publisher. The religion needs to start losing major numbers. It's very disheartening to see things continuing on as they have in spite of what are otherwise big issues.
I would like to see them completely do away with the 1914 doctrine and choose another date for the start of Jesus reign. Or do away with the earthly hope. I think those kinds of doctrinal changes would be major enough to really wake people up.
Or for a member of the Governing Body to be caught in a major, embarrassing, public scandal.
I don't know Cedars, I think it will take a long time for the financial cost of child abuse lawsuits to crumble the Watchtower. As much as I would love to see it happen.
I'm getting tired of waiting
