by tresdecu 21 Replies latest jw friends
Wise Administration would say: "Lay low" for a long while and consolidate. Avoid controversy.
I wouldn't think going mainstream would fit anywhere into their plans. However, one never knows what the survival instinct will induce into
that heady brew of inspiration called "the Truth."
What Now? - I'm not saying the Watchtower will fold instantly. I'm saying the evidence is there for all to see that not everything in the Watchtower's financial garden was rosey even BEFORE the Conti case. Imagine a dozen or so lawsuits down the line, all with multi-million dollar damages? Even then, I don't think Watchtower would vanish off the map. However, I can seriously imagine the organization shrinking to a scale of virtually no significance in my own lifetime. If this happens, you have Candace Conti to thank for putting the first nail in the coffin.
DesirousOfChange - I think you're focussing overly on the perception of the rank and file. I agree totally that, to the ordinary Witness - virtually nothing of a negative sort happened in 2012. However, just because they don't notice anything wrong on the SS Watchtower, doesn't mean it hasn't entered a field of icebergs, and maybe taken a couple of bumps against the hull already. Just because normal witnesses are sheltered from what is happening, doesn't mean the bigwigs in Brooklyn aren't sweating. That's my point.
All in all, I think the assumption of both of you seems to be that so long as the rank and file doesn't notice anything is wrong, then surely nothing is wrong. I don't think it works that way.
Cedars
If logic and evidence were as powerful as asserted here, Kingdom Halls would have emptied decades ago. Time and time again, this organization has survived monumental failures. It is a typical religious example of a triumph of fear over straight thinking.
People believe not because they have actually taken the time to thoroughly scrutinize belief systems but because they have a felt-need to believe (in something). They then paper over their emotion-based reason with a dash of superficial reasoning.
Cedars - I agree, don't get me wrong.
I guess as someone stuck in here for now for the sake of friends and family, I'm getting impatient. I can't imagine waiting years like so many here on this board have.
If I leave now, I'm a mentally diseased apostate, driven by greed and controlled by Satan. If I leave because of a major issue that every single witness is aware of and that causes considerable embarrasment to the leadership... I guess I'm saying that I want a more honorable way out, even if most witnesses would think badly of me anyways.
I think it's hard to see the big picture when you're dealing with the day to day of being mentally out.
I agree, that logic and reason does not affect jws. I spoke to ones about the new generation explaination and it just goes over their heads with no affect. It just makes me scratch my head in wonder over their blind obedience.
Maybe it's 'what came first, the chicken or the egg' kind of thing.
What will come first:
The money dries up paying off child abuse settlements - religion is shut down or becomes insignificant due to lack of funds.
or
Majority of the rank and file 'wakes up', leaves, religion shuts down or becomes insignificant due to lack of funds due to loss of contributions.
Am I making sense?
What now? - I can't see you ever having a perfect excuse to leave, even if things go "tits up" for the Society (as we say here in the UK). Any hard times that the Society goes through, even if they are legally responsible for their own misfortunes, will be spun as being an attack by Satan, or persection, or whatever. Any who leave at such a time will be branded disloyal. In the minds of indoctrinated witnesses, there is never an "honorable" time to leave.
However, even though the religious element of the organization will always be around in some form or other, I can foresee a time when the sheer scale of the cutbacks and downsizing becomes so dramatic that people start leaving en mass. Perhaps this is what you would like to see? Sometimes I wonder whether I allow over-optimism to cloud my judgment on this issue. However, as far as the cold hard facts are concerned, the Society no longer looks as invincible financially as it once did. The internet has been a real game changer in this regard - something the earlier generations of "apostates" never had at their disposal.
I keep going on about it, but last year saw an unprecedented 16% drop in the number of branches. That sort of thing would have been unheard of only a decade ago. Something is definitely going wrong for the Society financially, and a flood of Conti-inspired lawsuits will NOT help the situation at all. I don't think it's a chicken/egg situation. I see the two possible outcomes you propose as coming one after the other quite nicely. But there will always be a religious representation of the JW faith for the forseeable future, even if the Society becomes miniscule in comparison to its former glories.
Cedars
I would like to see them completely do away with the 1914 doctrine and choose another date for the start of Jesus reign. Or do away with the earthly hope. I think those kinds of doctrinal changes would be major enough to really wake people up.
If the OverLap Generation didn't wake a person up, what the hell will? I mean how much of a stretch of one's imagination does it take? Someone born in 1900 and someone born 1970 who met the older dude before he died are all THE SAME GENERATION? They're not asleep. They're stoned.
Don't be so sure that the overlap is a wake up. Pretty much 100% of the ppl I have spoken to about this are not that bothered. One told me that all the time we have at least one person alive from 1914 then the generation is still around. Most just are burying their heads in the sand and putting off any questioning for the next 30 years.
The more I research, the more I read then the more I realise that the psychological control of being in the organisation will keep most people bound for a very, very long time. The whom/where else is there to go to agument is VERY strong in most of the witnesses I know. I agree 100% with what leavingwt said on a thread of mine - the only people who will listen to any rational thought on the "truth" are those that want to.
DOC and Konceptual, I agree. The mind control is so strong a person has to become fed up, usually over multiple issues, over time, to BEGIN to look deep enough to find TTATT.
I have spoken with two other posters on this board who, like me, said, "If the Elders and the rest, had shown just a TINY bit of kindness in my situation, I would still be in." Goofy or changing doctrines, or scandles are usually not enough to bump a true believer out. It takes a PERSONAL attack of some kind to make the person willing to explore the other issues that are troubling.
