The big deal about masturbation / Deaf Video by the WTB&TS

by smiddy 24 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  WTWizard

  I don't understand what the fxxx is the big deal with masturbation. They claim the act is unclean. I say, How? Can they say exactly in what way is masturbation unclean? Perhaps because it might lead to sexual experimentation, which is not unclean either. Or, because it's the gateway for the soul to develop, which the Washtowel simply can't bear to see anyone experience.

  For the soul to properly develop, you need to start with a sense of belonging somewhere. A home, more specifically. The witlesses with their rubbish on materialism discourages that. Then, the sex needs have to be fulfilled--again, they make a big deal of anything that fits that. From there, satisfaction in other areas needs to happen--satiation is part of self control in a balanced way. Asceticism stifles this process. Compassion, which the religion discourages with its many rules, is next. Then you need effective communication, blocked when anything you say could be used against you. Psychic insight is next, which is obviously discouraged when all forms of spiritism are forbidden. Finally, we need a valid channel to our Gods--meaning Satan and His Demons. Jehovah is not going to provide for that.

  Every single one of those stages is stifled through one or another of the washtowel's rules. And, instead, we are "as foreigners in a strange land". Field circus wastes so much time and money that we can't do anything that might properly develop our souls. A life of stagnation and repression results--anything of beauty is turned "treif", and people are forced into asceticism (bad for the soul). We die without creating any value, and ultimately suffer damnation.
• 

  slimboyfat

  The problem is how graphic it is.

  It's worth mentioning yet again that two people on the forum who are actually deaf themselves didn't see anything wrong with the sign language used in the video.

  They had to know that someone would find the video on their website and run wild with it.

  I doubt it. Why would the GB or anyone near the top of the organisation have ever even seen this video before unless they are deaf themselves?
• 

  sir82

  They had to know that someone would find the video on their website and run wild with it.

  That's just it - they didn't know. While they are clever on some things, they are still utterly clueless about how mind-bogglingly stupid they can be.

  This is what happens when you have a culture of "yes men" and "submitting to theocratic order".

  I'm quite sure there must have been a half-dozen or more folks who saw the video before it was posted and thought "that ought to be toned down". Within 3 seconds of that thought, however, another thought came along - "Brother Department Head has already approved this video - therefore I will be submissive and not raise any flags."

  This sort of thing happens all the time - it's how the "within our 20th century" magazine from 1989 got into print, it's how the really dorky photos get into the magazines, it how "sparlock" became an internet meme this summer.

  It's how a policy of cover-up-child-abuse-at-all-costs can remain in place for decades.

  The funny thing is, they still don't learn. Child abuse lawsuits will cost them 10's if not 100's of millions over the next couple of decades, and they'll still be so utterly moronic that no one will ever "break theocratic oder" or do something at risk of being viewed as "unsubmissive".
• 

  King Solomon

  Lady Lee said:

  I suspect that since they have so quickly demanded You Tube and other websites to remove copyrighted material from their sites and they seem to be taking their time with this one is that they really don't quite know what to do. The video is shows the correct usage of ASL.But if they make a fuss about it then it is sure to makes matters worse in regards to people making fun of them.

  I wouldn't read much into the timing: it takes awhile for content owners to draft and submit takedowns manually, then for Google/YT Legal Dept to RESPOND to the thousands of DMCA requests they get on a daily basis.

  I saw a post yesterday claiming that the first video HAD been pulled from YT due to WT's complaint, but haven't confirmed it... The timing seems about right, as it takes a week or two to get a takedown, even when it's expedited (and similarly, YT takes their own sweet time putting videos back UP after the content owner fails to sue: it should go back up immediately (within a few days), but I've had some down for 3-4 weeks, and calling YT to expedite is pointless).

  While people are laughing at the translations, the thing that is really funny is that the sexually repressive WTS first made the video and second posted it on their website and third such graphic representation would most likely encourage people to try it after seeing the video.

  There is no better example of why copyright law exists than this: the word 'copyright' literally means that NO ONE except the content owner has a legal right to determine where copies are distributed. As EE properly says, there's over 300 years of precedence in US and UK courts to support that basic fundamental concept of ownership of intellectual property.

  This situation demonstrates exactly WHY no one except the owner is allowed to control where copyrighted material is distributed. Whether anyone accepts it or not, this is an open-and-shut case from a legal standpoint: WTBTS is the victim of copyright infringement here, and the egg is on the face of those who distributed it without permission.

  You have missed the entire point of people's complaints. It was never about whether the WTS should make a video about masturbation. Or that they made one in sign language. Or even that the signs used in the video are correct sign language terms.

  I think Smiddy has done us a favor by tabling those other issues (i.e. whether it's proper ASL, offensive, too emotive/graphic, etc) and creating a topic about ONE single element: whether religions have a right to dictate bedroom behavior. Clearly there's plenty of precedent.

  Let's engage in a thought experiment:

  Let's imagine the GB feels the outrage from active JWs for intruding into the bedrooms of active JWs, and Anthony Morris himself caves to the pressure and says, "OK, we get it! We'll do anything you say, but for the LOVE OF GOD, just make those GIFs stop whacking off!! We cannot handle seeing one more.... (breaks into sobs)." So they change policy to making masturbation a conscience matter, and promise NEVER to intrude again.

  FINE. So, you've seen yet another example of their lack of "brighter light", and convinced yourself that it's a religion controlled by MEN, not God.

  Are you going to still want to be part of a religious group controlled by men, when you KNOW they don't have divine direction? Are you thinking, "Wow, it's really a great group of people and all, and I'd go along if ONLY they let me masturbate without feeling guilty!" Is that the goal?

  Here's the challenge:

  Someone make a case for:

  1) why you actually hope/think this video will force WTBTS to change their bedroom policy, and,

  2) how such a policy change potentially would effect you.
• 

  King Solomon

  They had to know that someone would find the video on their website and run wild with it.

  That's just it - they didn't know. While they are clever on some things, they are still utterly clueless about how mind-bogglingly stupid they can be.

  It's impossible to know what "they" knew, unless you're a mind-reader. It's all speculative...

  But in that vein, here's a speculation for you: there is no bad publicity, and the derivative works (dubbed, etc) going viral is the best thing that could've been done to help WTBTS get the message out that they make videos for the ASL community (not just this one, but tons of others) .

  You'd better believe word will get out amongst non-JW deaf, and the controversy has just spread the WT's message more effectively than a team of 5k JWs wearing suits, knocking on doors, ever could.... It's not even hard to imagine that they're making a play to become THE Fundamentalist religion for deaf Worldwide, and those who tried to block it are actually are helping it to come true....

  This sort of thing happens all the time - it's how the "within our 20th century" magazine from 1989 got into print, it's how the really dorky photos get into the magazines, it how "sparlock" became an internet meme this summer.

  Yup, that's a phenomenom well-studied by psychologists which effects those in large organizations where power is centralized: group-think, where a beueaucratic mindset is unavoidable ("I was just following orders" thinking prevails).
• 

  slimboyfat

  It's impossible to know what "they" knew, unless you're a mind-reader. It's all speculative...

  Impossible to know anything for sure of course. But is there any reason to think the GB or anyone else in the leadership would have watched a sign language version of a minor publication, any more than they should have attempted to read an Awake! magazine in Swahili or Mandarin for example?
• 

  King Solomon

  Impossible to know anything for sure of course. But is there any reason to think the GB or anyone else in the leadership would have watched a sign language version of a minor publication, any more than they should have attempted to read an Awake! magazine in Swahili or Mandarin for example?

  As SBF says, we know nothing with 100% certainty, but that's why we deal in probabilities: what's likely vs unlikely.

  I agree: it's hard to imagine that GB would be approving to that level... It's all about delegation of authority and decision-making: a General doesn't make decisions three steps down the chain-of-command: he delegates, and then holds those officers responsible if they made a bad decision.

  Similarly, I find it extremely hard to imagine that the guy from the somethingawful.com (who "found" this video) was scouring the jw.org ASL videos, in the hopes of finding some obscure file that showed masturbation. Nope: it's highly likely that some insider with a beef leaked it to him, and he uploaded the video to YT after adding a keyword of 'masturbation'. The rest (GIFs, etc) is history....
• 

  Pistoff

  Here is the point for me:

  The WT has blundered again.

  If you don't think so, consider that they AGAIN are the butt of ridiculing remixes and GIF's bouncing around the web.

  With Sparlock, the ridiculous nature of their fear of plastic toys was spoofed.

  Now their micromanagement of people's sexuality has been graphically portrayed as "Jehovah's Witnesses tell deaf people to stop masturbating".

  Any book, any magazine and any website has someone responsible for content; what goes there, what effect will it have. Will it make us look stupid?

  The answer is Yes, this made them look stupid. Not ASL, not deaf people, the WT looks stupid for putting up this video.

  Not one person in the chain of command who saw it could tell that this would make them look out of touch and ridiculous; how is that possible? Even if you feel strongly that deaf people, like people who can hear, should not be touching their naughty bits for solo pleasure, how can you say, SURE, go ahead, no one will make fun of us for this??

  There is no way around it; this is a 5 star gaffe, blunder, screw-up.

  The website content editor should be demoted, fired or tossed from Bethel.

  If you are an earnest witness, how would you like it that THIS video or Sparlock is top most in the minds of internet-savvy householders?
• 

  Emery

  The video has been taken down by YouTube for copyright reasons.
• 

  Nambo

  Just been notified about this one, the author contacted the org to receive the usual watered down version of the troof!

  Stuff

  The Wanking Deaf Vs. Jehovah's Witnesses

  By Clive Martin and Sheree Millington

  Schadenfreude needs to be sincere to be funny. It's what made "Chocolate Rain" hysterical and everything Tay Zonday did afterward crap. Because self-awareness is the plague of the internet. And plagues never made anyone smile.

  "Everyone's self-aware these days though," you say. Well, no. There is still at least one group that doesn't understand what Reddit is. That group is the Jehovah's Witnesses, and the internet's meme-hunters have just caught wind of a Church-affiliated video that discourages deaf Jehovah's Witnesses from turning to that most shallow of pleasures, masturbation.

  The video is essentially a couple of different signers emotively pleading with the viewer not to crack one off, and because sign language isn't the most politically correct of dialects, they do this through all of the most obvious gestures that signify masturbation, married to a bunch of guys miming orgasms.

  With its dismissive wank gestures and air boob cupping, the overall effect resembles some kind of crude road rage dispute carried out through shut car windows. The fact that the signal for female masturbation looks a bit like a gang sign with its downward-facing V shape only adds to the feeling that you might have just cut up the wrong Cadillac on Compton Boulevard.

  Needless to say, a bunch of YouTube comedians have fired up Windows Movie Maker and given us their own mashed up versions of the original. The song choices range from the depressingly obvious ("Ignition Remix"), to the obvious yet still hilarious ("I Touch Myself"), and the pointless meme doubling ("Gangnam Style").

  While it's all very amusing, I was intrigued as to what the video's real message was. From what I could tell by the signer's expressions, the Jehovah's Witnesses are of the belief that masturbation sends you into a state of unparalleled sexual ecstasy, but all the research suggested the Church was very much in the "save it for the real deal" camp.

  I decided to call up my local Jehovah's branch, but was informed I couldn't speak to the elder there—not because he was unwilling to talk, but because he was deaf (an irony so thick you could choke a blue whale on it).

  Eventually I was redirected to a spokesman named Mark Holman.

  VICE: Hi, I was wondering if I could discuss a video that’s gone viral recently?
  Mark Holman: Yes, of course, what video is this? Is it on our website?

  I'm not sure if it's on your website. I can tell you about it briefly…
  If it’s not official, I can’t discuss it with you. But I can discuss with you ideas and suchlike.

  Great. Well, the video is specifically aimed at deaf Jehovah’s Witnesses and it warns them about the dangers of masturbation.
  Oh, I haven’t heard of that one, but I’ll keep a look out for it. You can ask me about the themes in the video.

  OK, firstly, as a Jehovah’s Witness, what are your views on masturbation?
  Well, we always go on the Bible’s view, which is that it is something that we should try to steer away from. Masturbation is not something we would suggest doing. We just encourage positive things.

  So is masturbation an official "sin"?
  It’s not officially a sin, but if you think of it as sinful then you shouldn’t do it. We don’t really refer to things as "sins"; if you have a good moral compass and love for the Lord then your actions will be pure. We do not encourage selfish activity.

  Is masturbation one of the more selfish things you can do?
  I don’t see how it can be a non-selfish activity, by its very nature.

  Are there any specific parts of the Bible I should study to help combat onanism?
  Galatians 5.22 and 5.23 are good bits.

  Wow, you know it off by heart.
  That is my job and my faith.

  Um, is it true that masturbation can send you blind?
  As a member of the Church, I don’t know. Certainly, there have been instances. Apparently. You would have to check with someone in the medical profession.

  Is there medical evidence?
  It would be worthwhile checking that out for yourself.

  The video is specifically aimed at stopping deaf people masturbating. Are the deaf particularly at risk from the dangers of masturbation?
  I’m guessing it must be hard to have such a disability, so the Church in America may have identified them as an "at risk" group. I don’t know if I am qualified to comment on that.

  What advice would you give to any Jehovah’s Witnesses who felt the need to masturbate?
  Well, I wouldn’t give advice. It’s expected that people can exercise control themselves. To some I might say read a book to take your mind off it, for others this might not work. Hobbies are always good. It just depends on the person.

  Cool. Have you heard of the pop singer, Prince?
  Yes, I have. He is a Jehovah’s Witness.

  He's quite vocal about how much he likes to masturbate. In fact, he apparently had two ribs removed so he could self-fellate. What do you think of that?
  That’s disgusting. I don’t know if that’s true.

  Is he a bad Jehovah?
  It is down to personal choice. He has a different lifestyle to most people. He’s a little odd.

  Do you like his music?
  Yes, I do.

  Do you play it in church?
  We have our own, specially composed music to suit whatever occasion we need.

  Is it good?
  Yes, it’s very good. You should come along and listen to it.

  I might do that. Thank you so much.
  It was nice speaking with you.

  Although I'm not 100 percent sold on the religion's views on the issue, it doesn't really affect me because I have never actually masturbated. So maybe there's still hope for me to find my route to God.

  If Prince can dig it, so can I.

  Follow Clive (@thugclive) and Sheree (@shereemilli) on Twitter.

  Previous tussles with religion:

  An Interview with a Jehovah's Witness Pornstar

  I Spent a Week Trying to Believe in God

  The Creation Museum Is Hilarious

  Hey Atheists, Just Shut Up Please

  By Clive Martin and Sheree Millington 4 hours ago Tags: Jehovah's Witnesses , wanking , masturbation , deaf people , viral videos , Ignition Remix , YouTube , interview , religion , remixes