My new worries about my mom-Suicide?

JWdaughter

I love my JW mom. We have had issues and struggles, but she loves me, I love her and we tolerate a lot of things we differ about because of that love.

You may remember my dad died a little over 11 years ago, and my mom took to a lOT of drinking and she was very depressed. I thought she would just die of despair or drink herself dead or drive drunk.

She has calmed down on the depression and I I know she still drinks too much, but I think it is a little more ocntained. In any case, for a while, she has been pretty much OK

She told me the other day that she has been tentatively diagnosed with a 3cm mass on her lung that the doctor believes is cancer. With her personal and family history, as well as her persistent cough, a pet scan, etc, its a pretty strongly based belief.

So, she is mentioning how she wishes she had money/insurance to leave us. She is selling her house (the diagnosis is the reason) and just accepted an offer. Before, after my dad died when she was depressed, she said that if she ever was diagnosed, she would kill herself rather than put everyone through it or go through it herself. With her getting rid of her stuff, selling her home, etc. I am concerned now. She isn't in that despair, but she isn't exactly a happy camper in general even before the diagnosis. Still melancholy. However, she isn't sinking into a deep pit of despair like she was when my dad died. I don't know if I should worry about suicide or not. I am visiting home soon (il live overseas) and I am kind of afraid she will take the opportunity while I am conveniently home, to end things. Am I being paranoid? I can totally see her thinking of how not to disrupt our lives any more than necessary and seeing that the time between Thanksgiving and Christmas was a good time for everyone to get time off (seriously, my mom would think this way and so would some of yours). She is very concerned about the medical needs of one grandson that she wants to help with a wheelchair lift but can't afford.

I don't know what to think I don't even know how JWs view this-I forget! Seems dead before armageddon, you get another chance, right? Or does suicide screw you? HELP, on any level you can!! Thanks

Found Sheep

Have this conversation with her. Be blunt and kind but ask her if she is thinking of ending her life.

Best of love to you

FS

Bella15

Where is her congregation in all of this? Does she has a support system from them? I am not being sarcastic. Perhaps you can contact her friends at the congregation and ask them to visit her more often or provide some kind of support. ;(

JWdaughter

Good ideas, but on the first, if I were to say it, she'd insinuate I was suggesting it, not worried about it. She has been trained from an early age to turn hard questions back onto the questioner so as to avoid them.

On the second, not really sure who I could approach. I'm a long ways away, but I will ask her if she is. This is something I think I should be dong for her, not the congregation, so if she turned it back on me, I'd know I deserved it and feel like crap, but she needs the support, even if I am not there.

She refuses to get a biopsy and will refuse any surgical treatment, only chemical and radiation, but they can't even give her a proper diagnosis w/o the biopsy. She has put herself in a no win situation. I brought up my concern to my sister. We are on the same page about mom, though I get along much better with mom and sis than either of them do with each other:) She still knows the depth of both her sanity and her insanity (we all have our things, right?) None of her kids live close, and my son is the closest grandhchild and is busy with life-but he does help her and is close to her and she knows he loves her, which is good. As his baby is due soon, I really don't want to bring up " I think grandma might be suicidal" to him. My nephew was born the day my dad died and that whole sceanrio is freaking my sis and I out a little since my grandbaby is due at the time my moms next scan is scheduled. You know how some people, specially JWs, love symmetry and crap.

thanks for the input folks. Anyone have any ideas about WT teaching on suicide/resurrection? That would matter to her.

AudeSapere

JWDaughter - Sorry for the struggles with your mom and, Boy! do I relate to much of this. There are so many of us with aging parents that are facing these difficult scenarios. For ex-JWs, I think it's even more complicated.

You wrote: I don't know what to think I don't even know how JWs view this-I forget! Seems dead before armageddon, you get another chance, right? Or does suicide screw you?

Last I heard/understood, JWs view suicide as 'self-murder', thus likely disqualifying one for resurrection. But, really, only Jehovah knows for sure.

I agree with FoundSheep - Have this conversation with your mom and be direct and blunt. Not emotional, not judgemental. Just an open and honest conversation. Maybe also make arrangements to meet with one or more of her doctors yourself (with mom) so you can ask the tough questions yourself and get a more realistic understanding of her condition.

Please keep us posted. Your updates are likely to help others as much as yourself.

-Aude.

Found Sheep

It used to be if you committed suicide it was murder and you were non repentant and no resurection. I believe in the last few years it's more "it in Jehoavah's hands to decide" they use mental illness as an "excuse"

JWdaughter

My sis thinks she is underplaying it already, I don't know The idea of my mom going through what my dad went through scares the stuffing out of me. It seems that murderers can be forgiven, so why not self murder? I don't know. I'm terrified at what HER mindset might be. Thanks Aude, you are an old reliable here on the forum:) You are all great.

i will be seeing her doctors with her in December when her next scan is.

Is anyone elses mom like this?

AudeSapere

Regarding the lung biopsy... These types of biopsies are done for all sorts of reasons. (And there might even be different approaches.)

Since your mom is consenting so *some* treatment, maybe you can try to talk her thru her reasons for refusing this particular DIAGNOSTIC tool. Why allow MRI's, scans for diagnosis and agree to chemo and radiation but NOT a lung biopsy?

I had lung biopsy back in 1998. It was done as out-patient using a lavage process. Pretty Easy-Peasy. For all the scans, preps, proceedures, and treatment I had with my cancer, the lung biopsy was *by far* the easiest.

Your mom may be making decisions based on faulty understanding and expectations. I'm going thru this with my dad. In his mind, he builds up the simplist of procedures into future catastrophic events.

With my mom, she was hospitalized a few years ago. She consented to treatment in the hospital but not any tubes or devices hooked up to her. I don't know if my siblings ever convinced her that the IV tube for fluids was simply for that: fluids. In her mind, she equated IV Fluids with 'Life-Support.' In a way, she was right. But not in the typical way the term 'Life Support' is used in common medical terminology.

I think the problem lies in the older generations view of hospitals, medicine and aging in general. They remember how it was back in the 40's and 50's. Also, the WT does them no favors when it comes to trusting/distrusting non-jws, doctors (ie: blood transfusions), and technology.

-Aude.

cofty

JWdaughter, I'm so sorry to hear about your mom's situation. I don't think you are being paranoid at all, I think anybody in that situation will consider how they want to deal with the end of their life.

She will need support to get all the facts about her condition and prognosis. Not knowing is worse than facts, even if it is bad news. My experience is that doctors and specialist nurses will tell you anything you want to know but only if you ask and that means knowing what to ask - and then becasue you are stressed you forget what you were told 5 minutes later. Perhaps it won't be cancer or it may still be treatable.

As Found Sheep said you should have this conversation with her. In the UK there is a charity called MacMillan Cancer Support who provide all sorts of support to people dealing with terminal cancer and thieir families. Is there anything similar in your mom's area?

I think JWs take a less judgemental view of suicide than they did in the past but I'm out of touch.

JWdaughter

I really don't want her to have a religous option for it, if you know what I mean.

As to the biopsy, her brother, who subsequently died of lung cancer, was nearly killed by a biopsy before he had any treatment. There was a stupid flub in the hospital and it was all very dramatic. Dr. apologised with a ruths criss steak dinner at the hospital. I KID YOU NOT. Anyway, he subsequently died a horrible death just a couple of years after my dad did. My mom lost 2 maternal aunts and her mom to lung cancer too. That is why a spot on a scan that wasn't there 2 years ago seems to be cancer inevitably. Her long time doctor actually agrees (has monitored her for decades and knows the history well). Of course, she is counseling for biopsy and me, too. She won't let them do any surgery since that was another bad episode (with all that family history, there are a lot of them) . She is mostly down to this idea. Death is inevitable and she doesn't want to drag it out any. I am hoping she leaves it at that and doesn't decide that she wants to hasten it is all. Its just with the sell offs and getting rid of stuff, and the concerns about my nephew, I wonder if she is giving me hints or begging for help to NOT do something stupid. I dn't know.

I WISH I WAS THERE FOR HER NOW.

My new worries about my mom-Suicide?

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