by cedars 46 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
A 3 year old child doesn't understand what he is saying. He is only mimicking what his mommy is saying. Same goes for granny.
I understand granny's concern, but she already raised her child and her child is a JW. Granny doesn't have to say a word to her 3 year old grandson. If she put's on a DVD, like Aladdin, he will be entertained and will see "magic" in action when the Genie appears.It is a form of entertainment and fantasy. Granny play a DVD and don't say a word.
I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the blood issue. I have no children, but am old enough to be a grandfather. If I had a daughter who was about to join a cult that forbade blood transfusions to children you better believe that I'd be all over that -- to the point of seeking custody over her child. I could tolerate believing that "magic is bad" or that God has one head instead of three, etc... But I could not tolerate endangering my grandchild's life.
So Yes, I would definitely speak to my daughter about this with a real sense of urgency before she went any further down that path.
As a JW, what do you suggest I should respond when he tells me magic is bad?
Which begs the question: what DID you tell her about that, Cedars? Did you make a case for telling the child "magic is good?"
In any case a parent has the unique right and responsibility to raise their child and teach their child as they see fit. There is no getting around that fact.
Yup. As much as we'd like Grandma to storm the Bastille and liberate the poor child, parental rights/responsibilities to care for the child, and the Mother's RIGHT to freedom of worship trump Grandma's concerns. Legally there is NO question.
GM needs to be AWARE of the blood issue, as she MAY be the one to step in and demand a court order to remove the child from Mom's custody in the event of a medical emergency (that is, if the medical staff is asleep at the wheel), but to interfere NOW in the possibility that it MAY happen is silly. Try telling Child Protective Services that you want the child removed on the basis of being a JW, and they'll look at you like this:
KS - After your little performance on the masturbation thread, you'll forgive me if I don't answer any more of your questions. Frankly, at present you're the only person on this forum whose opinion I'm not interested in on any subject. In any case, your comments are silly and (as usual) presuppose a number of things.
Cedars
Frankly, at present you're the only person on this forum whose opinion I'm not interested in on any subject. In any case, your comments are silly and (as usual) presuppose a number of things.
Cedars, no worries.... You've proven your flair for histrionics, hatred, and self-promotion in enough threads for me to see the trend (eg Anonymous, the ASL video, etc) and are so far beyond the bounds of fact-based reasoning, so rage onwards!!
KS - A silly post followed by another silly post. How predictable. Now I'm a "histronics, hatred, and self-promotion" monger. Whatever.
And where is this "rant" you speak of?? Never mind. Don't answer that. I really don't care what you have to say. I'm really only interested in the thoughts of sane people with no covert or self-serving agenda.
Cedars
[edit post: I noticed you changed the word "rant" to "rage" lol, interesting!]
Odd that she didn't mention her son. I am assuming that her reference to"his Mother" means it's her daughter-in-law and the father is not in the picture?
If she has a decent relationship with her grandson's mother then she should bring up the 'magic is bad' ........why he said that and to see if certain toys are out of bounds which should allow her to assess how deeply the mother is involved with the JW's. A quick visit to JW facts will enlighten the Grandmother and possibly she could direct the mother to check out that site for herself. Other then that if she wants a close relationship with her grandson she needs to thread carefully.
Hopefully the mother needs granny to help with baby sitting and may be willing to discuss her reasons for the JW relationship.
I'd tell the child, "Oh honey, magic isn't real. Magic is only pretend. You don't need to worry about it!"
That is what anyone would say.
The mom probably wouldn't even object to that comment if she heard it.
But, if the mom did object (I doubt it), it would be a great conversation starter: (shocked expression, talking to the mom... 'You believe magic is real?')
Wow, tough one. Grandma isn't really in a position to tell the mom how to raise the child. And it won't work anyway. It will only cause tension. I had a meddling MIL that overstepped her boundaries regularly--and not only over religion. Over everything, and it made things incredibly tense.
The child does not need to be told that JW's are wrong. The child needs critical thinking skills. Somebody once told me that they learned how to pick out counterfeit money not by studying counterfeit money---but by studying the real thing. The get to know what the real thing looks like so well that they are able to recognize a fake, even if they have never seen that version of the fake.
So rather than focus on the JW's (because there a Mormons, and Christ Sceint, Fundies, Con men etc.) focus on teaching the child critical thinking so that they can smell a rat no matter what the source. And it would also reduce tension, because grandma would be teaching skills without ever mentioning JW's. Mom may even agree that there is nothing wrong with brushing up on critical thinking, because JW's really believe they are critical thinkers. That through their power of reason they have found "The Truth" and can clearly see what the world can't see. They don't recognize how they have been manipulated and believe they have come to their conclusions themselves.
I know there is at least one book (sorry--I didn't google yet) that teaches you how to teach a child critical thinking. So focus on that----not the particulars of the religion. Give him the skills to HONESTLY come to his own conclusions through his own abilities.
That's what I say, anyway. And oh yeah, if she can talk to mom before the big dip, that would be great too. But I remember that by the time my child was off talking about 'hova and seeing things as good and bad through JW eyes, I was already too far gone. Any resistance would have just grounded me further.
NewChapter makes a great point about critical thinking, and all the posters have pointed out varying and valid perspectives. My mother did her best to interfere with my raising of my children, particularly when I was fading. Her efforts to force my children to remain in the religion backfired because for many years I responded by limiting contact with them. In any case, my children are critical thinkers and all of them see TTATT, so her interference simply succeeded in harming her relationship with me and my children.
A grandparent/parent's advice can be helpful and can be taken in the right spirit, but it must be done carefully.
I've had conversations about magic with my grandchildren. I tell them that I think magic is kind of neat, and that it's fun to imagine things you could do with magic. I also point out to them that there are many things that are magic in reality, and in fact were thought of as magical in the past. For example, electricity, or chemical reactions, or even how cell phones and radios work - invisible airwaves.
