More excrement in the fan

by outsmartthesystem 49 Replies latest jw friends

  • ruderedhead
    ruderedhead

    Outsmart, I'm so sorry for your pain. Your wife is obviously totally brainwashed, but that does not excuse telling your own children you are Satan's friend! That is beyond disgusting and vile! How dare she? You are not a sperm donor, you are their FATHER!! And you need to stop the indoctrination as best as you can. A 3 y.o. should not be quoting a jw video. Please follow others advice and record your kids. An attorney would be the best one to tell you how to go about this. This may sound strange, but you may want to take cues from how Katie Holmes divorced Tom Cruise. Seems as though she moved stealth like, did her homework, had great legal advice, and made sure she had all her ducks in a row first.

    So glad you are getting help for your depression. You should be feeling more like your old self in a bit. Just please don't share too much with your wife. It's none of her business.

    It sounds as though some of the activities you enjoyed are ones your children may enjoy doing with you, biking, maybe hiking instead of running, perhaps soccer or throwing baseballs? I can imagine that if you talk to them about God, if you have beliefs, share with them. Let them know you are NOT satan's friend! You can let them see that Daddy is not what Mom is making him out to be without saying anything negative about her.

    If you decide that the marriage is not salvagable, please go for 50% custody, so you can prevent total indoctrination.

    I wish you all the best.

  • GLTirebiter
    GLTirebiter
    FYI - I emailed my lawyer with a copy of the child custody brochure today. It broke my heart to do it.....but I had to

    If it's come to that, sharing the pamphlet with your lawyer is a good move. With knowledge of the Watchtower tactics, your attorney will be prepared to deal with them effectively. With the lawyers involved, you may be past the point of no return. That's sad, but under the circumstances getting out is probably the lesser evil.

    My 5 year old asked my wife in front of me "Mama.....does daddy serve Satan?" I looked at my wife and said "well.....why don't you answer her?" She remained silent. Then at night....my 5 year old said "I just don't understand.....why to you want to be friends with Satan?"

    Document these events as best you can. This situation has a name: parental alienation syndrome.

    The most important thing is to not sink to her level (your lawyer should already have had this talk with you, but it's worth repeating). No name-calling, no bad-mouthing her to the children, no threats. Don't put the children in the middle of a dispute between you and your wife. You need to stand up for yourself, while following every rule scrupulously. Think twice, three times about what you say and do--avoid anything that could be twisted and taken out of context to make you look bad in a custody hearing. Protect yourself against false allegations. And take care of yourself, your children need their father!

  • never a jw
    never a jw

    Outsmart,

    I am not a JW, but married a JW 18 years ago. We have two children, 12 and 16. Things had gone well until my 16 y.o. daughter ask me for permission to get baptized. I gave a long good for nothing speech about being alert, but consented anyways. I deeply regret my decision and call that mistake the worst I have done in my life. After some research I realized the power of the Watchtower indoctrination. I always thought their prophecies and stands in many controversial issues were... well, very silly. Today, I believe, the Watchtower is dangerous. It robs children of their dreams, their creativity, their originality. Don't wait to prevent your children from further indoctrination. I waited too long, and now more and more I realized how insidious the "silly" message is. I have a tough battle in front of me. Removing deeply implanted messages of mind control gets tougher as they get older.

    By the way, I have done exactly what you did, I split the time of the meetings and assemblies. The new policy is "An hour with you, an hour with me, a day with you, a day with me". I just started few weeks ago. It doesn't feel that I am making much progress, but I'm not giving up. Use this goal of rescueing your children from the clutches of one the most fraudulent religions that ever existed as your medicine to motivate you and prevent you from despair and depression.

    Hang in there.

  • sizemik
    sizemik
    FYI - I emailed my lawyer with a copy of the child custody brochure today. It broke my heart to do it.....but I had to.

    Good move OSTS . . . listen carefully to any input from that source. Not only for having your legal rights made clear, but also to hear how an outsider sees things. Don't fear worldly specialists and ask questions freely . . . they well help you keep a balanced view. The JW's are the ones to watch.

  • Joe Grundy
    Joe Grundy

    outsmartthesytem:

    You have a PM.

  • carla
    carla

    I'm sorry for the hell you are going through, been through it myself with my jw convert.

    My kids at the time were not as young as yours but I never, ever allowed them to step foot in a kh! ever! He naturally wanted to bring them but then I said fine, every other weekend they are going to explore the religions of the world including Catholic (you know how much jw's hate Catholics especially), Lutheran, Baptist, Hindu, Buddist, etc..etc... That stopped his attempting to bring them to a kh. What happened next? he would attempt to preach at them or make them read jw litter-ature. I then suggested they would be reading my apostate literature to get a balanced view of things. That worked somewhat, he would attempt to preach at them when I wasn't around. I then decided he should not be alone with the kids as much as possible and if they went somewhere I went too, family time you know. Was this difficult to do? yes, very and it was a hellish time in general.

    Kids are smarter than people give them credit for in my opinion. Kids can and do figure out that jw's are nutty than fruitcakes if given an alternative view of the world and religion. Bring them to a library and read some children's books about Bible stories and Jesus and see how that changes their views.

    What worked best in my home was to make sure it was a neutral zone of sorts. Absolutely no wt or jw literature could be lying about anywhere, nor could it be read in public view. Well, my jw could have but then I would find my apostate literature and keep that out or find the most horrible story about jw's I could find, print it out and read it in public view. There is no lack of horrible stories involving jw's.

    Is this an optimal way to live? no. However, if you can manage to go through a bit of hell to protect your kids minds, souls and body from the dangers of this cult and its members then it will be worth it. My kids have since grown up and found their way in life and have gone on to become Christians. They love their dad but think he is just nuts in the religion department. Yes, they know all about cults but in the end 'he is nuts' is the general consensus. Sometimes knowing jw literature is your best defense. Most jw's do not know or remember their own doctrines so when necessary you can pull out 'your own literature says....' It disgusts me no end to have to study jw doctrine but 'know thy enemy' is not a bad way to go at times.

    I was literally panic stricken when this all first happened in my home. Lost so much weight my poor dad thought I had a terminal illness. I too, lost all zeal for life and was obsessed with keeping my kids safe and trying to find a way to get my jw out of the org. I studied and studied more about cults, jw doctrine, Bible study, you name it I tried it. In the end we cannot make our spouses see the light when they are kept so busy in the cult they don't have time to come up for air much less ponder the reality of what they are taught day after day by the wt. You can help your children though. Not only can you have some control over what they learn you must. As a parent it is your duty to keep them safe and this includes their minds. Teach them to think and to think for themselves. God gave them a brain, did He insist they not use it?

    Things can get better.

    In talking with many ubm's (unbelieving mates) over the years they all have their own way of dealing with this situation. Some stay in the relationship just so they do have more control over the situation. It is much easier to see what's going on when you actually live in the same house. One ubm I know was intent on staying until the kids turned 18 just because he felt it was his duty as a man to be there for them, then his plan at the time was to roll out of there on his cycle once the last one turned 18. Others will go to the occasional meeting to keep some peace but still do holidays and try and keep things as normal as possible in the home. The men seem to have an easier time in my opinion because they can pull out the 'head of the house' card when necessary.

    If possible put a stop to all the meetings, if not, then make an agreement that only every other weekend will they go and every other weekend you get the kids. Then plan lots of fun activities! make the days with you so enticing the kids will dread the kh days! Plan fun weekends and always ask the wife to go with, leave it to her to choose between family or cult. The kids will eventually see the wt for what it is.

    Lastly, if you cannot stay in the relationship start getting all your ducks in a row now. Don't forget to get your own power of attorney regarding the blood issue for yourself and by all means let your kids schools, doctors and non jw family & friends know you will allow blood for yourself and your kids. Make sure the doctor writes it down in the kids records. Do not rush into a separation, it is your home too.

    Start a record of harmful things the kids have said to you (about satan, the big A, etc.) record things so you have them if needed. Somebody suggested Rick Ross, he is a legitimate service to use or could be helpful for you. So is Witness Inc (google it) if memory servese me Duane Magnini (sp?) runs it and has info on lawyers that know about jw's. An attorney off the street will not understand all that is involved with jw's and the psychological harm that it can cause children nor will the typical psychiatrist unless they are schooled in cults.

    Some courts do not understand that jw's are a dangerous cult and see any religion as a 'good' thing for kids. You may have to consider joining a church yourself and bring the kids so if it comes to it the judge will look at which 'church' is best for the kids and naturally a church with youth programs and fun things will be choosen over a kh. Just a thought.

    Things can get better, really. We have finally found a truce of sorts in life though that huge elephant is always sitting in the room. Find ways to find her authentic self and weekend getaways or even Sunday fun outings can make life more tolerable. Anytime you can get them to miss meetings is a good thing. As akward as it may seem now, try to find couple time together to find your way back to each other.

    Wishing you peace,

    carla

  • WuzLovesDubs
    WuzLovesDubs

    About the whole depression thing...when I first DAd in 1997 I was reacting to the sudden loss of 13 years of friends and half of my inlaws to shunning. I was at the doctor with an upper respiratory infection and told her about the depression and the cause of it and she was both shocked and sympathic to me and gave me a script for...I think it was Xanax. However my marriage at that time had become immediately contentious with my JW husband now dragging our very young three kids to the meetings without me...playing the "Poor BrotherWithTheApostateWife" card to garner sympathy and help from all the single sisters who ran to help him take care of the children. Reallllly??? But I digress...he immediately took the fact that i was on medication for depression and wielded it as a weapon against me. "You go ahead and try to get custody! Im going to show the judge that you are a MENTALLY UNSTABLE PARENT and that I should get FULL CUSTODY! Just TRY it!"

    So Im suggesting that you try to deal with your depression and what I perceive as your idea that you are helpless against this Organization and her and that you cant fight this....and try a better diet, exercise, reading...listening to music...whatever...besides doctors and meds to deal with this until any potential custody battles are done. I went to court with Duane Magnani in 1998 when he was representing a DFd JW man against his psycho JW wife to get 50/50 custody of his then 6 year old daughter. And Duane is the most hated lawyer the JWs have ever dealt with and an expert in JW/exJW custody cases. After all was said and done the judge said "You both need to grow up and stop dragging your child through this battle! You BOTH have the right to teach your children your beliefs, neither of you have the right to badmouth the other or cause a division between your child and her other parent! Therefore, you will share custody. 50/50 and neither of you will deny the visitation rights of the other or I will find you in contempt!"

    Take copious notes of everything that is going on, dates, times, conversations, arguments, comments by the kids to you. They should definitely have an Ad Litem represent and question them about her undermining your position both as father and her brainwashing them against you which is alienation of affection.

    It sounds like you are giving in to her and you arent going to garner sympathy from her because you are ill because from where she sits you deserve to be sick you deserve to be treated like shit because you "left Jehovah" so as my husband often said to me in the ensuing 15 years.."What did you expect? You made your choice so stop blaming everybody else for all the bad in your life. You brought this on yourself!" Followed by that sneering sarcastic superior snarky face that JWs give you when they are throwing their superiority complex in your face. You know the one.

    Load your guns. Get back in there and stop being intimidated by this cult or she is gonna walk out the door with your kids.

  • cobaltcupcake
    cobaltcupcake

    You are in a tough situation. My thoughts are with you. I've been through the hell of depression without medication, and I wouldn't do that again. Nowadays, you can take a short course of meds, just to get you over the hump, and then you're through. Be sure to check that out.

    http://scottleblog.wordpress.com

    The Odd Life of Jehovah's Witnesses

  • carla
    carla

    "Followed by that sneering sarcastic superior snarky face that JWs give you when they are throwing their superiority complex in your face. You know the one."-- ha, I know that one! my kids used to call it 'the ugly jw smirk' which they wanted to slap off his face for him. To my credit I never allowed that, though I secretly agreed with them!

    Good post WuzLovesDubs.

  • caliber
    caliber

    outsmartthesystem.

    There has been so much good advise given... just taking time to think upon it will give you direction

    and some peace of mind in knowing what to expect and how to take steps to guard first and foremost your own sanity.

    So sorry to here about your situation but we all the the mentality within the JW's.. it's us vs. the entire world right ?

    Everything not directly from the WT. could be from Satan.

    I can totally relate to your depression and the thought of not even enjoying things as before.

    All I can say is don't put yourself in the role of bad guy with the kids , only time can be your friend at this point.

    Please do seek counsel simply to have a neutral party to hear you.

    Please do nice things for yourself ... pamper yourself with dinners out , new clothes, football games whatever .

    I understand good buddy... I know advise seems so easy to give to others, living in the reality is much more difficult

    there is a flood of different emotions resentment, anger, frustration, hurt for the loss of peace and happiness you once had.

    I pray that with time and thoughtful reason you may find a peaceful path to follow

    please look over this... even coming to understanding grief will help you sort it out

    Stages of Grieving After a Relationship

    http://www.livestrong.com/article/128576-stages-grieving-after-relationship/

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pw-hGKruOYQ

    Go placidly amid the noise and the haste,
    and remember what peace there may be in silence.
    As far as possible, without surrender,
    be on good terms with all persons.
    Speak your truth quietly and clearly;
    Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness.
    Beyond a wholesome discipline,
    be gentle with yourself

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