Any one else like me?

by braincleaned 52 Replies latest jw experiences

  • tec
    tec

    Thank you for being so welcoming of all views, and for discussing them with respect!

    and the realization that "morality" precedes scripture -- its a WOW moment you will never forget.

    Oh, of course morality preceded scripture!

    The law was written down for people who did not have it written upon their hearts (where it should be written)... but it still existed. Some had (and have) it naturally. Those who have love within them... those laws will proceed from them naturally, because the laws hang upon the law of love (against which there IS no law).

    Nope, I cannot agree.

    Oh now there's a surprise ;)

    Your concept of God is the same guy depicted as YHWH

    My God is the Father of Christ. More often quite different than the guy depicted as YHWH... but I guess that would depend upon what (or who) you use to depict Him. I use His Image: Christ.

    If you are speaking of the biblical version of God, then even then, you would have to limit yourself to a literal rendering of every verse or piece of scripture that is not necessarily mean to be taken that way. (I don't want to continue this particular debate here though, so as to keep the OP's thread on track)

    Peace to you both!

    tammy

  • sizemik
    sizemik
    It's time for humanity to keep moving forward, evolve, and let go of these toxic beliefs that have some willing to kill others for.

    I do not think evolution is logical, I mean how can we be the best that evolution has to offer (survival of the fittest) when we are destroying our own environment and killing off other species left and right.

    That's what comes with all prolific and successful species . . . they consume and alter their environment, killing off competition for resources left and right. That's why they're "successful" . . . but short or long, it's only for a time. Features that make a species successful are diminished as environment changes, and even successful species are not without inherited "weakness" . . . changing conditions have simply not yet revealed them. But change is constant and powered by multiple factors.

    Evolution is a one-way journey that is impossible to predict . . . the only discernible progression is toward greater complexity, but even that is subject to random fluctuation through cataclysm.

    The possibility exists, however small, that all 2 billion yrs of evolution could be wiped out by a single cosmological event . . . and, in response to environment, the whole process begins anew. It all looks a bit different when you take yourself out of the equation.

    Logical or not . . . that's the best evolution has to offer.

  • NewChapter
    NewChapter

    I wasn't raised a JW. I was raised with an atheist father and an agnostic mother. I didn't have some inborn notion of a god. Then a neighbor who used to babysit me tried to teach me that God was the father, and Jesus was the son. It seemed very important to her that I got that right, and I kept mixing them up. But it was like a game, so I kept trying. All I really got out of it was she was saying some person lived in the sky. It kind of felt like Santa and the Easter Bunny stuff. But I still didn't feel any inborn desire to seek and worship some god.

    Then we moved, and when I was in second grade (I think) my neighbor asked my mom if she could take me to church. So I went to a United Methodist church. I didn't understand most of what they were saying, and still had no inborn desire to seek and worship this god. But the concept was firming up a bit more. My first Sunday school, we had a little worksheet to fill out and color. Another little girl had to help me fill it in. The answers were things like God, Jesus and angels, heaven. I simply had no concept of this.

    As I grew up, I kept going with my neighbor and eventually got old enough for their youth groups. We sang and played games and they did talk about god some. But it just didn't click much with me. They gave me a bible. I didn't understand it.

    Then in Junior High, I went to a Catholic School to escape bullies. This school scared me. Not the school, the masses we had to attend. The ritual, the dark church, the smoky smells. Made me really nervous. Plus everyone was always responding in Latin and it was stand, kneel, sit, stand kneel, sit. Then there was that genuflecting and holy water. We had to attend religion classes, and this is where I learned about the Trinity. It is also where Hell fire was made more real. So that we could grasp the concept of burning for an eternity in our young brains, the nun explained eternity this way:

    Imagine a solide steel ball as big as the sun. Every million years a bird flies by and brushes it with its wings. When that ball is worn down to nothing, eternity has only begun! So that's when I developed a kind of neurotic fear of Hell.

    Then in High School we moved, and I attended The United Church of Christ. It's a pretty liberal church, and they weren't big on talking about hell. But the fear was still there because there were a lot of fundamentalists in my school. I got into the youth group again, and really liked the parties, the bike rides, the music, the retreats etc. I would go with friends to their churches, and they were big on Hell. And tongues! And healing. I was just as uncomfortable with people babbling in tongues as I was in the Catholic Church, and the flames of hell were being stoked for me again.

    Then I became a Certified Labor Assistant and started working with midwifes and attending home births and getting to know a broad spectrum of people. Home birth seems to attract a lot on the extreme right and the extreme left. So there were plenty of fundies, but also Pagans, Wiccans, Buddhists, Astrologers, you name it.

    I used to play at a commune near me where there was just a total mishmash of religions, mostly Eastern and Pagan.

    Then the Fundies started making headway with me, because of my fear of hellfire. I started reading my bible, attending bible studies, listening to Christian radio, but never having this born-again experience. My fear of hell became pathological and it was always on my mind. I would think about people I loved who had died and just be sick with grief. I prayed all the time for God to show them some mercy. I even read about Fatima and the messages Mary passed on. And I waited to go to Hell, cuz I couldn't have this conversion no matter how hard I tried.

    In this state, JW's showed up at my door. They were going to Hell of course, but they showed me scriptures that convinced me there was no hellfire and I was a lump of clay that they molded easily! I was so relieved. I studied about 10 months and got baptized. Fast forward 20 years.

    I finally had the confidence and courage to consider that there was no god. I was actually unaware that my brain was breaking it down for quite some time, and one day, I just KNEW it. I was incredibly relieved and felt like I was floating! I'd finally had that born-again experience! LOL

    Anyway, I continued investigating and reading, and I am more convinced than ever that there is no god. Fear in my life has been reduced by 90%. I don't even know how I made it through so much of my life believing that trash. And I don't believe in the happy god either. There is just no evidence.

    I'm good with it. I was born an atheist, and spent my most tender years oblivious to any god concept. I am an atheist again, and it feels quite natural and complete. I don't miss it at all. I did not debunk JW's. I had not felt mistreated except in retrospect. I was not so disillusioned with my religion that I decided to lash out at a god. He just wasn't there anymore, and I realized, he never had been. It was later that I learned how dishonest the WT was and how the org had treated others.

    Once the critical thinking kicked in, it was impossible for me to turn it off.

  • braincleaned
    braincleaned

    // The possibility exists, however small, that all 2 billion yrs of evolution could be wiped out by a single cosmological event . . . and, in response to environment, the whole process begins anew. It all looks a bit different when you take yourself out of the equation.

    Logical or not . . . that's the best evolution has to offer.//
    It's absolutely logical, and there is no reason to think our rather small star, the sun, will last forver. It will do like all the others. We should be happy and grateful for our luck. Live well and love more.

  • braincleaned
    braincleaned

    WOW NewChapter! Love your story. Kudos to you.

    I realize I can't pinpoint when I "knew" there was no god... it's still blurry to me when that happened. I just did... what I do remember clearly, is the day I understood natural selection!

    WOW! I was touched by the grace of reason and truth! Incredible feeling... only then I started to look at "apostate" sites, and lo and behold! They weren't trying to get folowers, nor were that angry - but mostly hurt, sad, AND... understood how fucked up the WTS is; daring to place themselves as self-appointed middlemen between Christ and the sheep! Blasphemy at best - making themselves the mediators!!! Unbiblically.

    From then on, I was pissed, because my mom and sister still believe their arrogant bullshit.
    I hate them.

    I hate them because I love the brotherhood... the sheep... the abused. (Although they chose their masters)...

  • NewChapter
    NewChapter

    Brainwashed, the moment I realized I know longer believed in a god AND I accepted Evolution, I was actually in the Natural History Museum, looking at the mammoth and mastadon display, a display of Lucy was just a few feet away, a case with primitive human skull casts was right next to her, huge dinasour fossils loomed over my head--it was the perfect moment, in the perfect place, and I was able to just stare at everything and take in every detail in deep and quiet thought! It was like church, LOL.

    It's one of my most favorite moments ever. I remember I walked over to the Lucy skeleton cast and just stared for a very long time. Everything fell together.

  • braincleaned
    braincleaned

    //I was actually in the Natural History Museum, looking at the mammoth and mastadon display, a display of Lucy was just a few feet away, a case with primitive human skull casts was right next to her, huge dinasour fossils loomed over my head--it was the perfect moment, in the perfect place, and I was able to just stare at everything and take in every detail in deep and quiet thought! It was like church, LOL.//

    How I relate to that moment, where I felt I was finally ''home''... overwhelmingly blissful.
    Hit by the grace of Reason....

    BTW, hehe... it's not Brainwashed, but BrainCLEANED! LOL!

  • braincleaned
    braincleaned

    A little annoyed at a thread that tried to disprove the WTS with a bunch of scriptures, and lauding the Bible, here's what I answered.
    Yeah - I was pissed...

    " Well. the WTS is certainly a bunch of unbiblical mind controlers - but the Bible itself is a load of crap anyway. Nobody in their right mind today, would approve of the morality of a god that uses Genocide, slavery, and stoning to impose his despotism - let alone sacrifice his own son for a protocol he created himself!

    May reason bless you.

    The truth will indeed set you free... "

  • MrFreeze
    MrFreeze

    Me and you are the same... except instead of 40 years it is 23. Everything you said, I relate to.

  • fakesmile
    fakesmile

    i dont understand why you would trade one pair of handcuffs for another. however as long as you are not trying to shove ur beliefs down my throat, we cool.

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