Practice run. The real use of it comes later--to stop global warming.
What did God accomplish with the flood?
by jam 79 Replies latest social humour
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blondie
The idea of resetting the human race with the flood did not last long per the bible account. I think Noah was Nimrod's great grandfather and the WTS surmises that Shem and maybe Noah were still alive. Obviously their influence on their descendants was not very effective.
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Resistance is Futile
The flood myth begins to crumble with just the slightest bit of critical thinking. How did Noah preach to those in the Americas?
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King Solomon
To tag onto Blondies thought, only a page later the Bible tells of Sodom and Gomorrah. Was the Flood an effective intervention, or dismal FAIL?
The nephelim argument is interesting, as the Noah account makes it clear that they were present both BEFORE and AFTER the Flood. So God forgot to patch the security vulnerability which allowed fallen angels to mate with mortals (which is common in myths of other ancient cultures, btw), so God failed there. The "evil of man" argument is funny, as more than a few JWs have told me that things had gotten so bad, that men threatened to ruin the Earth. Say what? Had they developed nuke weapons, perchance? Stone Age warring hunter-gatherers would only destroy themseleves, at worst. Nothing new there....
The divine authority issue is getting closer, as note that God didn't demand an accounting for spilled blood of man and animals until AFTER the Flood, in Gen 9:5. That important passage depicts the roots of man's self-governance, where he gave Noah the authority and obligation to demand an account of spilled blood (aka manslaughter/murder). But the implications are bewildering, in that it implies the Pre-Flood world was anarchist, where people could literally get away with murder, since might meant right! So God forgot to give man laws up until then?
So understanding Gen 9:5, it seems the purpose of the Flood was to wipe the slate clean, to start over and get mankind off to a fresh start except to let men enforce a system of laws from the get-go until God handed down the golden tablets (another delay).
It actually explains a few mysteries that occurred earlier in the Bible, too, eg why Cain literally got away with the murder of his brother, Abel: it wasn't a sin until AFTER the Flood (hence why God mentioned "sin crouching at Cain's door": God hadn't yet declared murder to be a sin until Gen 9:5). An omniscient God didn't anticipate men committing murder? M'kay....
A legalistic analysis of the Torah is required, being that it IS a book of laws.
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King Solomon
"The flood myth begins to crumble with just the slightest bit of critical thinking. How did Noah preach to those in the Americas?"
The Beatles suggested a yellow submarine. Leolaia has ripped off the Beatles and renamed it as "Gopherwood 3000". :)
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smmcroberts
Great point, HeartOfaBoy, I hadn't thought of that! Where was the room for the potential converts on the already hopelessly overcrowded ark? God hadn't allowed for that in his blueprints.
I guess he foreknew that only Noah and his family were worth saving. The Bible tells us that Noah was a man "perfect in his generations". If that was true, then -- using the same logic as for Adamic sinful inheritance -- all of Noah's offspring (including you and I) would be perfect as well! But how did Noah become perfect when he was decended from imperfect Adam? That blows away the theory of Adamic sinful inheritance. So, either way we have no inherited sin! No need for a ransom sacrifice in that case, or Kingdom Halls!
@serein: Angels can be drowned? I thought they were supposed to be spirits.
If you don't believe it was an earth-wide flood, then why do you believe the story at all? If you're picking and choosing which parts to believe, then why not just toss the whole thing and be done with it? There is no evidence for it, and you even question why god would kill everyone for the angel's "sin" -- so why cling to this tall tale?
In any case, if it was god's purpose to kill off the innocent children of the angels, the flood was a failure even on that account; the Nephilim are later mentioned as still being on Earth in Numbers 13:33.
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undercover
Did Noah have lots of unused space on the ark where all the potential passengers his preaching was supposed to save from drowning would have lived during the flood?
I always wondered (way back when I was gullible and actually believed it happened) - where would they put people who did respond?
If I remember correctly, the order of events (per WTS): Build the ark per the specs given by God, preach, collect the animals, load up, rain. If Noah was building the ark per the specs while he was preaching, what if the preaching were successful to some degree? What if a thousand people responded and wanted to join him? What if only a hundred responded? How do you house/feed a hundred extra people? Apparently the preaching mission was a test of Noah's faith only, because if the ark was pre-sized not to handle more than Noah and his menagerie, then obviously God already knew no one would respond. Of course, over analyzing the sequence of events and logistics of the event is like over analyzing the plausibility of the plot of the Harry Potter books.
I like the thought of the orginal post... What use was the flood afterall? Kill everyone but Noah/family and shortly after that, everything is pretty much back to the way it was before.. That's some ineffective God ya got right there...
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Elephant
The story is completely goofy, and makes YHWH appear to be a bungling boob:
YHWH is supposed to be a great judge of human character who reads men's thoughts, but he didn't know about that little "evil in the heart" defect?
...salomon...forgive me for saying this but, YOU sir sound like a bungling boob...were it not for God you would not have the choice to express such elementary ruminations...
...here is a thought...God is god...and he can do what he well pleases to...
...he's done it since the beginning...and he will continue to do so... we, on the other hand...are left to express incomprehension for his motives and logic... ....he MEANT to do that, you know?....
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OnTheWayOut
The timing, the logistics, the science- all these do not work out for an actual worldwide flood.
What the flood accomplished was the laying of a foundation to prove the Bible totally false once mankind caught up with how to do that.
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King Solomon
Uh, elephant, in case you didn't get the hint: there is no YHWH. He's the result of humans who wrote a flawed myth. ;)
OTWO, I think the account makes PERFECT SENSE if you examine the role it plays in the Torah, a book of Hebrew laws. As a plot device, the story established the divine authority of the Torah to tell everyone what to do, and need for laws. Like the Adam and Eve account shows the consequences of not following Gods will, it shows what happens when you piss YHWH off.
But to try and find relevance Of the myth in a culture 3,000 yrs later is the height of foolishness.
Ps to add onto this:
"The "evil of man" argument is funny, as more than a few JWs have told me that things had gotten so bad, that men threatened to ruin the Earth. Say what? Had they developed nuke weapons, perchance? Stone Age warring hunter-gatherers would only destroy themseleves, at worst. Nothing new there...."
So if things were so bad such that man threatened to destroy the earth, what did God do in response? Uh, He destroyed the earth? M'kay...
That makes sense if you're 5 (and Elephant, the video makes reference to the PeeWee Herman defense of "I meant to do that", another strategy that only works for children, but not adults).