Need help...Letter from m-i-l calling us apostates

by TweetieBird 19 Replies latest jw friends

  • TweetieBird
    TweetieBird

    We got a letter from my mother-in-law today (3 hand-written pages). I will type it for you and hope that you can help me reply to it. This is the whole letter exactly.

    First a little background. For the past few years, along with my husband's other siblings (5 others), we have been making the mortgage payments on her house. Years ago we borrowed against her house and would have had it paid off by now but she let some of the other kids borrow against it and they refinanced the lump sum into a new 30-year mortgage so now we are stuck paying for it for the next 20 years. Anyway, our part of the payment is $130 and for the last year or so, we have been sending her $200 to help her with other expenses. None of the other kids (all JW's) pay a dime more than they are suppose to. Recently, we all decided to stop paying on a life insurance policy that we all had taken out on her as some of the kids never could come up with the $50 each month. When we cashed it in, our part was about $1800, which my husband gave to her to help her out. I'm only bringing this up because it is a part of the letter and to show the difference between her "apostate" child and her JW children.

    "Dear Son and Daughter-in-law,

    Thank you for the loving kindness you have shown to me. I really appreciate it. I am writing to you because I want to say a few things that I can't say when I talk to you on the phone or in person. That's because I am so emotionally involved with both of you that I cannot stop the tears. But, I have prayed to Jehovah God and asked him to help me express to you the importance of you regaining your faith.

    You have said to me that you are not an apostate. I want to quote to you from the World Book Dictionary under the word apostate 'a person who completely forsakes his religion, faith, political party, or principals'. You have made it plain to family members that you are no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses and you definitely want no part of the 'Watchtower Bible and Tract Society'. If this is truly what you believe, you have disowned the true faith. I personally have never been able to find anything in the teachings of Jehovah's Witnesses that is not true. The organization is based on the teachings of Jesus Christ.

    Also, most people who have left the truth and talk to others against it are people who are mad at some person or they want to get others to see their way of thinking. Jesus said that a great apostasy would try to mislead the sheep and it would happen even among the congregations. I don't know who or what has turned you against Jehovah's Witnesses and the Watchtower Bible & Tract organization, but I do know that it will not go well for you or your associates when Jehovah takes final action and brings an end to all wickedness. You know it takes love of Jehovah God to be one of his witnesses. I must have failed in some way to indication that deep love of Jehovah and his Son in you. I feel so sad at heart that you all have given up on serving our creator. It is not easy to go in service and to read God's Word daily and go regularly to meetings, but when you do you prove to Jehovah that you truly love him and in turn he gives you peace of mind, understanding of his word and real faith that is unbreakable. Son, about a year ago we were talking on the phone about the truth. In speaking about you leaving the truth you said to me, 'I know I'm doing the wrong thing'. (He didn't say that to her and she had pushed and pushed him to the brink of just lashing out at her). Do you remember that conversation? Please give deep thought to this: It is not too late for both of you to pray for Jehovah's help to open your heart and mend to understand what has happened to you and to give you his holy spirit so that you can regain his favor and you make a supreme effort to regain your faith. I hope this letter to you is not taken the wrong way. I'm desperate to find a way to help you & all the family. I love all of you with all my heart and I want you to be with the family in paradise here on earth to live forever. Remember Titus 1:2 which says, 'upon the basis of a hope of everlasting life, which God who cannot lie promised before time long lasting'. Bible prophecies are being fulfilled now and everything will come true.

    I've enclosed this new brochure that helps people see the unity of God's servants today and how they are doing God's will. I hope you read it & look up the scriptures.

    All my love,

    Mom

    I do love her and I totally get why she feels this way. I would like to respond to her in a loving way but at the same time give her something to think about. One time I asked her why every other number in Revelation is symbolic except 144,000 and she actually looked it up and replied to it. So if you guys can help me come up with some questions to ask her I would really appreciate it.

    Another side note, we do not talk against the organization to anyone in the family or try to persuade them to leave it. We only say that it's not for us. One of my husband's brother tells us that he thinks it's a lot of BS but he lives near her so puts up a front for her. He pretty much does whatever he feels like doing, including having sex with other witnesses as well as non-witnesses.

    Sorry for the long post and thank you!

  • wannabefree
    wannabefree

    Mind control is sad.

    Is there a point in responding? Maybe the best thing is just to reassure her of your love and continue showing the loving concern that you have been.

    If she is elderly, maybe she has too much to lose by learning the truth about "the Truth".

    Continue showing her by your actions that the definition of apostate doesn't fit who you are.

  • TweetieBird
    TweetieBird

    She is 76 or 77 and a regular pioneer and in pretty good health. I have no desire to change her but I feel sad that she is in such torment over us not being witnesses. I like your idea of just showing her unconditional love in spite of the way the rest of the family treat us.

  • tec
    tec

    May I ask if you still have faith in Christ and God?

    It would make a difference to a possible reply. Because you could reassure her of your love for Christ and His Father; and that you have faith in the love and mercy of God and His Son toward you. But you simply cannot be part of an organization that (insert whatever your reason for leaving here), and you trust that they understand this. That might not fly, but that you still have faith might be of some comfort.

    Above all, I think you should reassure her that she did not fail you, and that it is not her fault that you left the wts (as long as this is true; I don't know your story). That you are an adult and that this is your choice. Because as a mother, i can imagine the terrible guilt (and fear) she is feeling for that. So perhaps THAT is the best assurance that you can give her, along with your own unconditional love.

    Peace to you,

    tammy

  • Black Sheep
    Black Sheep
    One time I asked her why every other number in Revelation is symbolic except 144,000 and she actually looked it up and replied to it.

    Really???

    JWs usually 'reply', but seldom answer the question that was asked. Have a good look at her 'reply' and ask yourself if it was really an answer. If it wasn't, that is the subject you should be discussing.

    It is always a waste of time discussing another subject when the JW hasn't grasped the point that they don't have an answer for the present one. Just ask one good question then don't let them escape. Pick a subject that will bother them .... not just one that bothers you.

  • talesin
    talesin

    Dear Mom,

    I understand how you feel, and please know that I am very happy in my life. You have taught me how to be a good person, I love you with all my heart, and in no way have you failed as a parent. Please know that things will be okay with me, and I am at peace with the issues you speak about.

    *just a general comment, but you get the flavour of it*

    xo

    tal

  • smmcroberts
    smmcroberts

    If you have children (or plan to) you could express your concern that they would be treated as oddballs by the other kids, be discouraged from playing sports and pursuing an education, and would be in mortal danger if they ever needed a blood transfusion. As a mother she should be able to relate to your wanting to protect your children.

  • Fernando
    Fernando

    Hey TweetieBird!

    I'm praying you continue getting many useful responses and much great advice and support from the awesome talent here on JWN.

    I agree with your idea of asking questions that may help her to think and reason.

    Since she says: "I'm desperate to find a way to help you & all the family. I love all of you with all my heart" you may want to hold her to this, and possibly even guilt trip her a bit.

    In keeping with the one lost sheep principle would she be willing to spend 60 hrs a month researching and answering your questions, instead of calling on strangers, for the next 3 years?

    Maybe you could get her permission to ask her a few questions, and also her commitment to answer them from her own heart.

    Possibly you could reassure her that when she is ready to take a hard honest look at these questions, and pursue them relentlessly, everything will eventually work out for the family.

    Some of my favourite questions (not all at once, and simplify as much as possible and as needed to suit the person's abilities, time and capacity):

    1. Dear MIL could you please do a search in the wt lib for the following and then explain what "apostasy" is from your own heart:
      aposta* unfaithful* [a sentence scope search, see the hits in the NWT Bible footnotes]
      prostit* [see the hits in the NWT Bible, especially the book of Ezekiel]
      spiritual (prostit*/adultery/fornication/unfaithfulness) [use brackets, wildcard and obliques or slashes as shown]
    2. Is it spiritual unfaithfulness or apostasy to claim to be a "publisher of the good news" when one is unfamiliar with the "good news" according to Paul, Moses, Isaiah and Psalms?
    3. Is it absurd to accuse someone of leaving "the truth of the good news" whilst personally being unfamiliar with the "good news" according to Paul, Moses, Isaiah and Psalms?
    4. Is it true that more than half the Bible's roughly 152 references to the "good news" are by Paul?
    5. Why is it important to religionists to hide the "good news" according to Paul, Moses, Isaiah and Psalms?
    6. How do you personally reconcile Paul and James on "faith versus works" and "law versus grace"? Which approach is apostasy and which is faithfulness to the "truth of the good news".
    7. What is "legalism"?
    8. What is the opposite of "legalism"?
    9. Which of these is apostasy?
    10. Which of these is faithfulness to "the truth of the good news"?
    11. According to Paul how is it possible and impossible to have a right standing with God? [hint - find and mark every occurrence of the words "righteousness" and "justification" in the books Romans through Hebrews.
    12. Do the publications, up to Pastor Russell's death in 1916, support the claim that he knew Jesus started ruling in 1914?
    13. A circuit overseer once quoted from the 1994 Divine Teaching convention saying that if something is not in harmony with divine teaching it is teachings of demons. Is this true?
    14. When and why did the Watchtower stop teaching that ALL religion is a snare and a racket? Which teaching is apostate teachings of demons - the former or the latter?
    15. Is "belief" one of the fruits of the holy spirit? If not why do religionists equate "belief" with "faith"?
    16. Is "religion" one of the fruits of the holy spirit? If not why do religionists equate "religion" with "faith"?
    17. Does "faith" emanate from God, whereas "belief" emanates from man?
    18. How, why and when does God grant the gift of "faith" to ordinary persons? [Rom 10:16,17]
  • TweetieBird
    TweetieBird

    I love all the responses so far.

    Tammy - I do still believe in God and Christ, I would consider myself a spiritual person but not a religious person. I have mentioned to her in the past that to be a JW means to accept without question that Jehovah is using the GB as his channel for man and without that complete faith in the organization it would be impossible to go out in service and try to convince someone else it's the truth if you don't believe it 100%. I would like proof from the scriptures that they were chosen. I have never gotten a clear answer, just basically that they are who they are because they say they are. Silly me, I always thought Jesus was the mediator between God and man, not the organization.

    Black Sheep - it was a couple of years ago that I asked her that and she actually replied with something that made sense. She admitted that it took her a while. I can't remember exactly what the reply was but I remember that I was going to follow up with something else but didn't have the energy to spend a couple of hours on the phone with her about it. She puts a wall up if she suspects you are coming at her as an "apostate".

    Talesin - I like the way you think and that will definitely be the gist of the letter. I guess I want to find a way to politely say to her, "what if you are wrong and you've judged us to die at Armageddon and alienated us from yourself and the rest of the family?" She is definitely the matriarch.

    smmcroberts - my children are all grown, only 1 got baptized and he got disfellowshipped not too long after that for fornication. He tried to get reinstated after a couple of years. We moved and he started going to a different hall-the elders at this one approached him after several months to put a letter in, he did but the original committee denied it. He tried again a few months later and they denied it again because he had had sex after getting disfellowshipped even though he stayed celibate while trying to get reinstated. He gave up after that and hasn't looked back. He was the only one of my kids that actually thought it was the truth but now he wants nothing to do with it.

    Fernando - a lot of great information. Quick question...What is legalism and what is the opposite? I don't come on this board too much anymore but I have seen a lot of talk about it. I don't understand myself so would never go there with her without fully knowing it myself.

    When the whole UN thing came out, she was the only one I approached about it. I told her that it really bothered me and I felt like maybe Jehovah removed his spirit from the organization because of it. Afterall, he changed his mind about the Jews so why not the witnesses especially after going to bed with the wild beast. It didn't affect her at all, in fact she said that unless Jehovah came down to earth directly and told her the organization was wrong, she would follow them. It's hard to reason with that so I dropped it. She mentioned it to several elders and the circuit overseer. The CO and the DO came by once to encourage us back to the meetings and asked us if it was because of the UN thing and I told them that was part of it. They said they didn't understand why the society would do that either. I was dumbfounded that it was accepted without question.

  • The Searcher
    The Searcher

    @ TWEETIEBIRD

    Reassure your MIL that your love for the truth is still strong, and if anything, stronger still since you did deeper Bible research, not literature research! Tell her that you want her to strengthen her faith by doing the same thing.

    Then suggest 3 Scriptural points for her to reason on, to see if she can appreciate the real Bible truths compared with what she's been told in the literature by the GB.

    If my mother was still alive and questioned my clearer understanding, this is what I would write to her;

    1) At Galatians 2:1-9, the apostle Paul gives a very detailed account as to who was used to resolve the circumcision issue. He also (if you read his words carefully) makes it clear that certain prominent ones in the Jerusalem congregation were not held in high esteem by him. After reading the account, do you think a "governing body" resolved the issue, as we are told they did?

    2) In the account of the the Lord's evening meal at Luke 22:15 - 23, it is clear that Judas was present when Christ introduced the New Covenant, and also partook of the emblems. Do you agree with the All Scriptures book (as well as Luke 1:1-4) when it states that Luke was meticulous in his accuracy, or do you agree with the Insight book (under Judas) when it says that Luke got the details of the event wrong?

    3) Since 1985, we've been repeatedly reminded by means of literature and platform speakers (not to mention our own brothers & sisters) that "new scrolls" will be opened, which will give us wonderful new instructions from Jehovah. Will you read Revelation 20:12 and see what the Bible really says? And didn't you notice in the September 1st Watchtower 2012, on page 16, that the Society has dropped the word "new" from that expression created in 1985?

    Can you see now why I want to obey God's command to 'test the inspired expressions', (1 John 4:10 not to blindly accept everything I hear as truth.

    If your MIL refuses to test her beliefs against the Scriptures, let her be.

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