Did Paul Invent Christianity?

by smmcroberts 49 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  mP

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helena_of_Constantinople

  Saint Helena ( Latin : Flavia Iulia Helena Augusta ) also known as Saint Helen , Helena Augusta or Helena of Constantinople ( ca . 246/50 – 18 August 330) was the consort of EmperorConstantius , and the mother of Emperor Constantine the Great . She is traditionally credited with finding the relics of the True Cross , with which she is invariably represented in Christian iconography.

  She selected some town and called it Nazareth. She also selected the mountain most xians accept as Mt Sinai.

  According to Eusebius of Caesarea she was responsible for the construction or beautification of two churches, the Church of the Nativity, Bethlehem , and the Church on the Mount of Olives , sites of Christ's birth and ascension. Local founding legend attributes to Helena's orders the construction of a church in Egypt to identify the Burning Bush of Sinai. The chapel at St. Catherine's Monastery --often referred to as the Chapel of Saint Helen—is dated to the year AD 330.

  http://www.nazarethinfo.org/show_item.asp?levelid=63462

  During the Byzantine period, Nazareth became a holy place for Christians and its first church was built over a cave where Joseph and Mary are believed to have lived. In this period, there was also a large increase in pilgrimage to Nazareth . Towards the end of the Byzantine era, Jewish settlement in Nazareth came to a halt and the city became Christian.

  As always dont believe a single thing i say, do your own research and you will find many intersting similarities..Notice the theme of the Flavian connection with xianity...Its the family business, while other caesars ignored xianity the flavians continued to be a part of its earlies history.
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  mP

  The real q is who invented Paul!
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  smmcroberts

  Thanks for the analogy, Leolaia. I would definitely say that Rutherford invented the Jehovah's Witnesses. Their beliefs are so diametrically opposed to what Russell taught (All will be saved into the Millennium vs. billions will not be saved into the Millennium). It's a similar situation to the difference between pre-Pauline doctrine and Pauline doctrine: All the laws are still in effect vs. None of the laws are still in effect. A big enough difference, in my opinion, to reasonably call it a whole new religion.

  mP: Very interesting seeing some of the details of how Rome ran with the idea of a religion that held to "render unto Caesar" and "be submissive to the powers that be". I'm sure they viewed Christianity as a "God send" (pun?)
• 

  Joe Grundy

  Context is all!
• 

  mP

  Smmcroberts

  mP: Very interesting seeing some of the details of how Rome ran with the idea of a religion that held to "render unto Caesar" and "be submissive to the powers that be". I'm sure they viewed Christianity as a "God send" (pun?)

  mP->Smmcroberts

  Really thats it ? Come on its easy to see how convenient Jesus was to the Flavians. There were many false Messiahs who gained followers and tried their best to rebel against Rome. They of course all failed.

  Joseph of Aritmathea is a play on Josephus. The town Arimathea never existed, its never been found in other documetnation or even the OT.

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arimathea

  Arimathea ( Ancient Greek : ?ριμαθα?α ), according to the Gospel of Luke (xxiii. 51), was "a city of Judea ". It was reportedly the home town of Joseph of Arimathea , who appears in all four Gospel accounts of the Passion for having donated his new tomb outside Jerusalem to receive the body of Jesus . Apart from the Bible, there is no record of a place called Arimathea existing. [1]

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_of_Arimathea

  Joseph of Arimathea was, according to the Gospels , the man who donated his own prepared tomb for the burial of Jesus after Jesus ' Crucifixion . He is mentioned in all four Gospels. The name is thought by some to refer to Joseph bar Mathea, who was also known as Flavius Josephus, the first century Jewish historian. [citation needed]

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iscariot

  A second theory is that "Iscariot" identifies Judas as a member of the sicarii . [5] These were a cadre of assassins among Jewish rebels intent on driving the Romans out of Judea. However, some historians maintain the sicarii arose in the 40s or 50s of the 1st century, in which case Judas could not have been a member. [6]

  There has never been any town called Iscariot.

  There are many strange connections between the apostles and terrorist groups of first century judea. The more you look the more you find the NT contains many puns and word play on characters that were involved in the jewish revolt around 70 AD against TItus.

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crucifixion

  There is an ancient record of one person who survived a crucifixion that was intended to be lethal, but that was interrupted. Josephus recounts: "I saw many captives crucified, and remembered three of them as my former acquaintance. I was very sorry at this in my mind, and went with tears in my eyes to Titus , and told him of them; so he immediately commanded them to be taken down, and to have the greatest care taken of them, in order to their recovery; yet two of them died under the physician's hands, while the third recovered." [43] Josephus gives no details of the method or duration of the crucifixion of his three friends before their reprieve.

  Hmm does this story sound familar, someone surviving crucification. Read the rest of the story you will find more parallels.
• 

  mP

  From the Bible..

  Woe to you, Korazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! If the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I tell you, it will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgment than for you. And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted up to the skies? No, you will go down to the depths. If the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Sodom, it would have remained to this day. But I tell you that it will be more bearable for Sodom on the day of judgment than for you" (Matthew 11:21-24).

  To this day no one knows why these towns are mentioned, as there are no other refernces to them in the Bible or tradition.

  Check your history of Titus and you find that these places were the site of vicious fights against the Romans.
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  smmcroberts

  @mP: " Really thats it ?"

  Well, no; I really want to thank you for the information and all of the research links, and the time it took to bring this all together.

  You have pointed out some things I had never heard, and I'll need time to digest and research this. (Time which I sadly don't have right now.)
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  glenster

  I don't think there's much of a case that Paul invented Jesus or belief in
  Jesus. It's established there were some tensions about related policies. Some
  of the issues:
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauline_Christianity#As_a_pejorative_term

  The idea Paul invented Jesus has come up now and then for centuries like JWs
  brochures for the non-belief choice. Your mileage may vary, but I recommend "How
  on Earth Did Jesus Become a God?" and "Lord Jesus Christ: Devotion to Jesus in
  Earliest Christianity" by Larry Hurtado as representing the more persuasive case.
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  OnTheWayOut

  Leolia's answer seems the best. Without Rutherford, Jehovah's Witnesses would not have been come to be. The religion started by Russell, branching off from an existing faith, would have died off. Probably the same with Paul. The Way probably wouldn't have survived without Paul's efforts. Rome would have chosen Isis or Mythras and that might be huge today.
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  Phizzy

  What is difficult in all this for the WT/JW religion is that they claim to go back to the original teachings of the Christians in the first century, as mP has ably shown on this thread, and many times it has been shown elsewhere, we do not have such teachings and we cannot be sure that there were any "Christians" as JW's think of them, i.e followers of Jesus who thought of him as more than a teacher, in the 1st Century.

  The historical Jesus has yet to be proved.