Is There a Such Thing as Progressive Understanding?

by Recovery 31 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Aware!
    Aware!

    Over the centuries, why has God allowed different interpretations of his Book? Is progressive understanding the same as changing your understanding when you see something didn't/won't happen? E.g., I'm not old, but I remember as a kid I was taught that the generation who saw the events of 1914 would not pass away before the end of this wicked system of things comes. Who preached the "Truth" (or went door to door, something JWs claim as "proof" they're the only true religion on earth doing God's will) before the Witnesses came about? Don't the Mormons also go to door to door? You mean to tell me mankind was in total darkness for centuries before Russell? If the account of rocks talking is taken literally, why didn't it happen? Why did God wait centuries to teach a man (Russell) the "Truth"? And if it was the "Truth" then, why isn't it now? Did the God of the Bible really intend his Son's ransom sacrifice only for a select 144,000 people and not all mankind? Why are the rest of the numbers in Revelation not taken literally? Why don't JWs participate in charity work (James 1:27) when Jesus gave a clear command? Those are some of the many questions I had when I was a Witness. Couldn't find the answers in the WT literature, so I expanded my search online and to other viewpoints.

    I don't expect you to answer them; you don't need to. Please make an honest self-examination of your beliefs.

    (1 Thessalonians 5:21) Make sure of all things; hold fast to what is fine.

  • WTWizard
    WTWizard

    Progressive understanding is when you think you know something. Upon further study, however, a point that you were wrong about now becomes clear and you get better understanding. As you continue researching things, you find new pieces of the puzzle and your understanding becomes clearer and more accurate. And not necessarily straight--if you get bad information or are confused, you could find yourself getting a new bad take on something that later clears itself up upon further research and study.

    However, when this happens as a result of a few people misleading you, you never get better understanding. The mistakes are much more common, and the good information that would have cleared things up is suppressed. Which is what they want--for me, progressive understanding of God has made me hate that Almighty Lowlife Scumbag and view him as having stolen my soul, tying it up so I have problems dedicating it to the God that I now wish to serve (which is Satan, Jehovah's enemy).

  • Crisis of Conscience
    Crisis of Conscience

    I do believe there is such a thing as progressive understanding.

    But saying you were wearing a pair of blue basketball sneakers and then changing it to a black hiking boot on the left foot and then changing again to having one foot bare and one pink sandle on your other foot.........well that's just downright lying and makes you look crazy.

    The WTS's understanding is everchanging. It makes them look like downright liars. Don't forget, they like to make their own definitions to words also (example being "generation"). What makes you think their definition of "progressive" fits a normal, sane, human being's explanation?

    CoC

  • Recovery
    Recovery

    Okay rip van winkle I will change my avatar just for you LOL

  • oldlightnewshite
    oldlightnewshite

    I believe that making grandiose statements and predictions about earth-shattering events like the big A on behalf of almighty god, is tantamount to pulling Jehovah's underpants down in public.

    Jehovah has lost all credibility, his so-called organization didn't quite have any to begin with. I don't see any examples in the bible of Jehovah playing 'Psych' for a laugh with his prophets and mouthpieces on earth.

  • Retrovirus
    Retrovirus

    Is there such a thing as progressive understanding of God's will?

    For any individual, yes, of course.

    For anyone or group claiming to speak under the direction of the Holy Spirit or any other form of "infallibility", no, it doesn't apply. Either they were not speaking as directed, or they were not directed at all.

  • talesin
    talesin

    Yes, progressive understanding takes place in science, and, for example, philosophy.

    However, when you are speaking of a group who says they are the Divine mouthpiece, inspired by Holy Spirit, and shining the Light of 'Truth' on the world, well, then ...

    That is a bunch of liars.

  • cedars
    cedars

    Recovery - You ask for a simple "yes" or "no" answer on a matter of deep doctrinal and scriptural significance. Since you refuse to do research before making your posts, and you don't seem to take on board any of the well-meaning suggestions you are given by those who know more than you do, I will completely ignore that particular request and give you some reading material to chew on...

    You may not read it, but hopefully someone who is genuine will...

    IS THE LIGHT GETTING BRIGHTER?

    We are constantly informed in the Society's publications that any errors in books or magazines from years gone by are due to the “light getting brighter”. In other words, the brothers during the days of Russell, Rutherford and Knorr were not granted full understanding of the bible or God’s purposes for them. As a result, their publications contained many errors, which render them unworthy of any serious consideration by Jehovah’s people today.

    This idea brings with it a great contradiction, because although errors in the publications are freely admitted, they are still indirectly attributed to God as having been provided as “spiritual food” by his holy spirit through his earthly organization. The exact relationship between God’s holy spirit and the writers of Watchtower publications seems to be rather obscured in the literature, but here is just one example of how the Society claims that God’s holy spirit takes an active role in the actual preparation of the publications, however error-strewn they may subsequently turn out to be:

    “If we are sorely tried and do not know what to pray for, ‘the spirit joins in with help for our weakness, pleading for us with groanings unuttered.’ God answers such prayers. (Romans 8:26, 27) Let us pray for holy spirit and allow it to produce in us those of its fruits particularly needed to face a certain trial. (Luke 11:13) We will also increase our joy if we prayerfully and diligently study God’s spirit-inspired Word and Christian publications prepared under the spirit’s guidance. (The Watchtower, 1992 3/15 pp. 21-22)

    Thus, the bible is “spirit-inspired”, whereas the Watchtower publications are said to be prepared “under the spirit’s guidance”. Try as hard as I may, I have yet to find a single Watchtower article that satisfactorily explains the difference between “spirit-inspired” and “spirit-guided”. To my mind, both terms mean one and the same thing. Either way, it is clear from the above quote that the Society claims guidance from God’s holy spirit as playing a key role in the preparation of Watchtower publications. If this is the case, why would God deliberately “guide” the planting of erroneous thoughts and teachings in material intended for his worshippers?

    The Society frequently uses three scriptures to impress upon Jehovah’s Witnesses their teaching of “increased light”. These are as follows:

    Into the path of the wicked ones do not enter, and do not walk straight on into the way of the bad ones. Shun it, do not pass along by it; turn aside from it, and pass along.For they do not sleep unless they do badness, and their sleep has been snatched away unless they cause someone to stumble. For they have fed themselves with the bread of wickedness, and the wine of acts of violence is what they drink. But the path of the righteous ones is like the bright light that is getting lighter and lighter until the day is firmly established. The way of the wicked ones is like the gloom; they have not known at what they keep stumbling.” (Proverbs 4:14-19, New World Translation)

    “Consequently we have the prophetic word [made] more sure; and YOU are doing well in paying attention to it as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until day dawns and a daystar rises, in YOUR hearts. For YOU know this first, that no prophecy of Scripture springs from any private interpretation. For prophecy was at no time brought by man’s will, but men spoke from God as they were borne along by holy spirit.” (2 Peter 1:19-21, New World Translation)

    “And as for you, O Daniel, make secret the words and seal up the book, until the time of [the] end. Many will rove about, and the [true] knowledge will become abundant.”And I saw, I Daniel, and, look! there were two others standing, one on the bank here of the stream and the other on the bank there of the stream. Then one said to the man clothed with the linen, who was up above the waters of the stream: “How long will it be to the end of the wonderful things?” And I began to hear the man clothed with the linen, who was up above the waters of the stream, as he proceeded to raise his right [hand] and his left [hand] to the heavens and to swear by the One who is alive for time indefinite: “It will be for an appointed time, appointed times and a half. And as soon as there will have been a finishing of the dashing of the power of the holy people to pieces, all these things will come to their finish.” Now as for me, I heard, but I could not understand; so that I said: “O my lord, what will be the final part of these things?” And he went on to say: “Go, Daniel, because the words are made secret and sealed up until the time of [the] end. Many will cleanse themselves and whiten themselves and will be refined. And the wicked ones will certainly act wickedly, and no wicked ones at all will understand; but the ones having insight will understand.” (Daniel 12:4-10, New World Translation)

    Unquestionably, the scripture in Proverbs 4:18 is the most frequently used of the above three when driving home the idea of “increasing light”. However, the context of the scripture clearly shows that the “path of the righteous ones” is merely analogous of the favorable consequences enjoyed by righteous people in comparison with “wicked ones”. Bible prophecy or even “God’s word” is mentioned nowhere in this scripture. The “prophetic word” in 2 Peter 1:19 is a “lamp shining in a dark place” – it neither brightens nor dims. Daniel 12 describes the wicked ones failing to understand his prophecy, but only the “ones having insight” understanding. Indeed, according to this verse, whether or not bible prophecies are understood seems to be an indicator of whether or not the one “roving about” is wicked or righteous! There is certainly no room for changes in interpretation, or going back to an original idea. You either understand, or you don’t.

    The truth is, when read in their full context, none of the above three commonly used scriptures describe a scenario in which Jehovah God would use his holy spirit to knowingly and deliberately issue false information to his worshippers as a “makeweight” until true information is revealed at a later stage. This is simply not how the “God of truth” goes about doing things in the scriptures. (Psalm 31:5) Rather, when God wants his servants to know something, he tells them unequivocally and with no ambiguity or innuendo. In the case of a prophecy, for example, the words of a true prophet speaking on behalf of Jehovah are said to always come true without fail. The bible even tells us that you can identify a false prophet simply by noting whether the words he has spoken in Jehovah’s name have come true or not. (Deu. 18:20-22)

    Faced with the evidence, there is therefore no scriptural reason for believing in the Society’s teaching of increasing light. Either the Society speaks as God’s representative in all things, or not at all. They must choose for themselves, as must their readers.

    In reality, the “increasing light” teaching provides a convenient escape hatch whenever the Society is confronted with evidence of past teachings that are either suspect or downright misleading. It also allows the Society to change their prophetic interpretations whenever history proves the previous teachings to be false. However, wherever the “increasing light” doctrine came from, it most certainly doesn't originate from the bible – that much is clear. The bible has simply been misquoted in a number of places in such a way as to apparently lend support to the notion. In reality, the bible speaks clearly and unequivocally of those who speak falsely in Jehovah’s name, and its judgment of such ones is far from flattering.

    Cedars

  • Black Sheep
    Black Sheep
    Is there such a thing as progressive understanding of God's will?

    Only if there is one.

    I just see men adjusting their opinions on when/what their god is going to do based on his/her/its no show for whatever they said he/she/it was going to do to my sorry arse if I didn't put money in the coffers of their church.

  • Phizzy
    Phizzy

    If there is a God, how can we know what His/Her/Its will is ?

    Certainly the discredited Bible is no guide, it is evidently the work of about forty men and is simply their thoughts and written to their agenda, motivated by the political or religious circumstance of the time they were writing.

    Other "Holy" books ? same thing applies.

    So, I guess if God ever speaks to you revealing whatever that "will" is you may quite well come to a progessive understanding, or you may grasp it all at once, especially if it is contained in one simple statement such as "Love is All".

    Of course you still have to interpret how love is to be exercised by you.

    The WT concept of Progessive Understanding, as shown above, is simply an excuse for their own inept grasp of what the Bible actually says, and therfore the constant failure of their predictions and teachings which need revision on a daily basis it seems.

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit