Is Jehovah (GOD ) an intelligent being ? Or an incompetent

by smiddy 25 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • smiddy
    smiddy

    According to the bible he communicated quite freely with humans, via dreams ,angels ,prophets ,etc.etc., in ancient times ,even up to, two thousand years ago , then he fell silent.Then whatever, he was supposed to have said, has been manipulated , ( mis ) interpretrated ,twisted ,whatever, by imperfect human beings ,supposedly speaking in his name .during this last 2000 years.WE now live in a time of unprecedented information technology , isn`t this the time to speak to the people of all the earth ? using such technology ? Their has never been a time on earth when their have been so many people living at the one time and the means to communicate with all of them in a 24 hour period . So where is he ? Why is he not talking to all humanity ? giving all the opportunity for salvation ? Or is he really just a figment of mans imagination .

    smiddy

  • Pistoff
    Pistoff

    Jehovah is a mythological construct. To Jehovah's Witnesses the name is the name of God, and the personalization of God; to know him and call him by his name, in their view, makes them closer to him.

    The name is an invention of a middle ages priest who is said to have mistakenly used the vowel points for Adonai in conjunction with YHWH, and anglicized the Y to a J.

    To me, Jehovah in the world of Jehovah's witnesses takes on a unique mixture of qualities; kind but vengeful; needs to be worshiped, good for creating universes, yes, but also apparently cares if you masturbate and used his faithful slave on earth to make a video about it.

    In my opinion, JW's (without being aware of it) use the name J to soften the startling impact of their views; as an example, they will talk about Jehovah providing when they talk about a new job, or a home that appeared on the market in a place they want to move to in the pursuit of a spiritual goal. To say God found me my house, or God found me my job, sounds more startling.

    I suspect that is not what you had in mind, just my 2c.

    In the OT, J was the name of God in some of the passages; in others, it is El, or others.

    The traditional view (documentary hypothesis) is that at least 2 separate oral traditions were combined in the OT, one describing god as J; the are JEPD, J source, E source, Priestly source and Deuteronomic source.

    J is more like humans, walked among humans, felt regret, anger, etc.

    E, or El, was more aloof and had less dealings with humans directly.

    SO...a long winded reply.

    J and E are both constructs from early hebrew (maybe even pre-hebrew) sources that come from older oral traditions.

    The stories were redacted into a more traditional form sometime between 700 and 400 BC.

  • Phizzy
    Phizzy

    What you are inferring P'off is that the jehovah of the WT is a schizophrenic.

    In which case, they can both F*** Off !

  • Black Sheep
    Black Sheep

    Is this the jehovah that made it's ultimate creation androgynous without realising that it might want company in Paradise after it got bored with naming animals?

    He performed what may be called the first operation of painless surgery. “Hence Jehovah God had a deep sleep fall upon the man and, while he was sleeping, he took one of his ribs and then closed up the flesh over its place. And Jehovah God proceeded to build the rib that he had taken from the man into a woman and to bring her to the man.” The man was overjoyed to receive and accept her at his heavenly Father’s hand, and he named her to show she was part of himself. “Then the man said: ‘This is at last bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh. This one will be called Woman [or Ish·shah′], because from man [or Ish] this one was taken.’” (Gen. 2:21-23, NW) God had now divided the feminine characteristics from Adam and put them in this woman or Ish·shah′ and thus produced the human sexes WT 1 Sept 1956

  • panhandlegirl
    panhandlegirl

    So where is he ? Why is he not talking to all humanity ? giving all the opportunity for salvation ? Or is he really just a figment of mans imagination .

    smiddy, this is one thing that has always bothered me. If he made himself known back then, why not now? If he performed wonders back then, why not now. If he destroyed the Tower of Babel because with one language there

    was nothing that man could not accomplish, why did he not stop Russia and America's space program? As you stated, "isn't this the time to speak to the people of all the earth?" When the nations have the capacity to destroy

    everyone on earth with nuclear weapons, you would think that HE would make himself known as HE did back at the begining man's existence? His silence makes one wonder if he isn't "just a figment of man's imagination"and all

    those things attributed to him are not just myths.

    PHG.

  • smmcroberts
    smmcroberts

    Oh, haven't you all heard? He's using the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society for the global communication of his message. And that's even on the Internet now!

    And even with Jehovah's top news-story being the imminent destruction of billions of people, he still has time to make videos about throwing away children's toys and the dangers of masturbation!

    However, to answer the OP, it seems this channel of communication he has chosen is rather, er... incompetent; it keeps getting his message fatally wrong. For instance, there was the message about organ transplants, and the one about vaccinations... But, hey! They got the kid's toys and the masturbation thing down pat, so let's not have any unrealistic expectations of our all-too-human GB.

  • King Solomon
    King Solomon

    If would be interesting to count up all of YHWH's interventions in the OT with mankind, and see whether God achieved success according to his stated goals and how long the 'fix' lasted.

    For example, the flood:

    Goal was addressing problem of "evil in hearts of men" design defect. Success? Nope. Evil persisted.

    Or Towel of Babel:

    Goal was obstructing cooperation amongst men to stop construction. Success? Do you speak a foreign language? Even worked on a project with foreigners? It was a short-term fix that lasted for a blink of an eye in YHWH time.

    Such depictions undermine YHWH's omniscience, where his crystal ball seems very cloudy as he seemingly cannot see the outcome of his interventions.

    "Perfect"? Hardly.... Even the existence of Satan is a failure to anticipate a possible slight problem with his "perfection" which occurred even before man came into the picture.

  • Cold Steel
    Cold Steel

    This is a question that plagued me back during my high school years ago. I searched all kinds of churches looking for one that could answer it. That's when I first checked out the JWs...and they didn't fit the criteria in any way. In fact, there's only one that did and now, 40 years later, there's still only one that I can find, anyway.

    The Catholic church has long sought for a way to reestablish communications with God, but has been stymied, as have other faiths. When the New World was discovered, many Protestant denominations fled here for religious freedom. After the American Revolution, they battled each other for converts placing faith on the fear of God and eternal damnation to support their various doctrines and dogmas. Instead of relying on Christ for authority as did the early Christians, they relied on the Bible. In 1945, with the discovery of the Nag Hammadi library, an ancient Christian library consisting of 52 books (many of whom were Gnostic). Even so, many quotations from the apocryphal Gospel of Thomas have been deemed to be authentic sayings of Jesus. One of these sayings includes this well known parable:

    Jesus said: The kingdom of the Father is like a woman carrying a jar full of meal. While she was walking on a distant road, the handle of the jar broke and the meal poured out behind her on the road. She was unaware, she had not noticed the misfortune. When she came to her house, she put the jar down and found it empty.

    As in other parables, the Kingdom of God is likened to a woman; and in this one the Kingdom’s contents were the spiritual gifts that defined the church Jesus created. After Christ’s death, the Kingdom fell into apostasy as prophesied (2 Thessalonians 2:1-3). By the time Rome seized control of the church, the spiritual gifts had been lost. There were no more healings, no more raising of the dead, no more visions, angels, revelation and baptism had changed.

    But one reason I believe God to be real and to have spoken anciently is the profound and consistent messages that are delivered. From the law of Moses down to the Gospel taught by Christ, the scriptures, prophecy and teachings of the prophets not only are profound, but life changing. Christianity, as taught by the Master, completely eclipses Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism and the other “isms” of the world, including the religious teachings of great civilizations such as the Aztecs, Mayans and Peruvians.

    But why in our day, when we need Him most, does the great God of Heaven hide? When the Lord God will do nothing save He reveal it unto His servants the prophets are there no prophets? Jesus warned that there would be false prophets, but he never actually said there would be no prophets. But if He were to raise prophets in our day, where would He raise them? If a prophet knocked on the doors of Bethel or appeared before the Western Baptist Convention, what kind of reception would they get? Or if an apostle knocked on the doors of the National Council of Churches, what weight would his words carry?

    Churches have hierarchies and creeds, and they cannot be easily cracked by outside claims. In fact, anyone claiming to be a prophet in today’s society would immediately be branded a kook. If I, now, here, claimed to be a prophet or apostle? What credence would I have? None. And what would a prophet have to do, today, for YOU to believe his or her claims?

    That’s the problem, see? In the end, it’s easier to have an established dogma, with creeds, than to have new prophets. Yet in Revelation 11, we’re told that two prophets will be called to minister to the Jews in Jerusalem in the last days; so it’s hard to argue that no prophets will be called in our day. These two could be two ancient prophets like Enoch and Elijah—or they could be new prophets. But to say no prophets will arise appears to be unscriptural.

  • King Solomon
    King Solomon

    Cold Steel:

    Churches have hierarchies and creeds, and they cannot be easily cracked by outside claims. In fact, anyone claiming to be a prophet in today’s society would immediately be branded a kook. If I, now, here, claimed to be a prophet or apostle? What credence would I have? None. And what would a prophet have to do, today, for YOU to believe his or her claims?

    Is YHWH too busy to make a personal appearance? Can't He manage to appear on a burnt tortilla in Spain, like Jesus is known to do? YHWH can make stones cry out, but He's not omnipotent to open the clouds and reveal himself?

    Oh, I think I know why: Divinely-inspired Hebrew cosmology says that Heaven is located on the upper-side of the firmament, the solid canopy to which the Sun, Moon, and Stars are attached. However, modern men know that some stars are billions of light years away, while the Sun is 8 light minutes away and the moon is much closer (hint: they're not the same distance!). Space Shuttle has not bounced off the firmament (!), so there is no firmament, and is no heaven up there, either.... Didn't see the 1969 Moon shot, I'm guessing?

  • loosie
    loosie

    When my daughter was five she asked her JW babysitter why god doesn't talk to us anymore. The babysitter said because we have made Jehovah sad. Lol

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