And what I am saying is that we need be in no doubt about what Trobisch thinks about the evidence. He believes the evidence indicates that the divine name was used in original NT writings. He even presents a visual depiction of the divine name in the original text (of 2 Corinthians I think) and uses uses YHWH in his translation of the passage. You can doubt whatever you like about whatever hypothetical you care to think up, but those are the facts.
Divine name debate - Greg Stafford v Paul Lundquist etc
by yadda yadda 2 32 Replies latest watchtower bible
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slimboyfat
Incidentally there are dozens of Bibles in different languages that use the divine name in the NT for different reasons, Franz was not the only one.
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Rob Crompton
Basically, there are two possibilities here: either use of the divine name had died out completely by Jesus' day, except for its use by the high priest on the Day of Atonement; or there was some lingering, minor use of it more widely than by the priest. If the latter is the case, then NWT clearly misrepresents the historical situation because it has others beside Jesus using the name when historically they would not have done. But if there was some lingering use of the name then NWT may (note, may, nothing more) represent this limited usage. But the trouble for WT doctrine is that even the NWT does not show people using the name the way WT says we should - not even Jesus.
So two challenges for the JW: take a highlighter pen and colour all the uses of Jehovah in, say, John's gospel, in one colour and all the uses of Father in a different colour. And now ask how did Jesus teach his followers to address God?
Second challenge: try using the name Jehovah in exactly the same way it is used in the NWT - i.e. only when quoting scripture where it is there in the text. All other times use "Father" - then see how the KH police respond.
Rob Crompton
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Jaime l de Aragon
The translation of the new world, not a translation is an "adaptation"
Your anonymous contributors are a smoke screen, would not pay royalties to translations as King James, New King James Version, New Jerusalem Bible and others
In 1983, Raymond Franz, a former member of the Board of Jehovah's Witnesses and the nephew of former President Frederick W. Franz wrote a book Crisis of Conscience.
He said that the New World Translation does not mention the name of a translator and is presented as the result of the work of the anonymous "New World Translation Committee" (Committee on New World Translation). In fact, members of this committee were Frederick W. Franz, Nathan H. Knorr, Albert Schroeder, George D. and Milton Henschel Bargains. Regarding Fredrick W. Franz, Raymond says that "he was the only one to have sufficient knowledge of biblical languages ??to attempt translation of this class. Had studied Greek for two years at the University of Cincinnati, but Hebrew study itself (self) "
Interestingly, Dr. Walter Martin said that in a test tax in Scotland November 24, 1954 between Walsh and Latham, "Fredrick W. Franz admitted under oath that he could not translate the Hebrew Genesis 2:4" (a verse all freshman at the Hebrew Theological Seminary in rotting translate)
After reviewing the data, Dr. Martin concluded that the Committee on Bible New World Translation does not deserve respect because "there was no exegesis recognized qualifications deemed translator or translation in Greek or Hebrew "
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TheListener
Does a complete translation of the NT by Trobisch exist? Is it electronic? If so, we could see for certain where he decided to use and not use the name Jehovah.
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slimboyfat
either use of the divine name had died out completely by Jesus' day...
I don't think so. The Leviticus fragment from the first century shows that a form of the divine name was pronounced during the first century by those who read that MS at least. (Yaho) And is there any good reason to suppose it was not typical? Magical texts continued to use forms of the divine name for centuries. Jewish tradition also describes Jesus as using the divine name. Those who were against using the divine name were the second century Christian apologists, who were aware of the divine name, but said it should be concealed. It is from the same period from that the earliest NT MSS survive which use nomina sacra in place of the divine name, which practice also spread to other adjacent divine terms.
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slimboyfat
No Trobisch has not made a translation of the NT as far as I know. This is a complete red herring. The important point is that Trobisch believes the evidence shows the divine name was in the original NT writings.
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Phizzy
Trobisch argues for a second century publication of the N.T as a complete work in the 2nd century in his work "The first edition of the New Testament".
If this is so, I would have thought more doubt would be cast upon the inclusion of the Tet. (YHWH) due to what slimboy says, the movement to not use it.
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Recovery
Can anyone answer this question: Is the divine name in shortened form in the book of Revelation? YES or NO?
I think it says a lot about people who wish to discredit the NWT for the use of the divine name. Your issue is no longer with the WTS, but with the Bible writers.
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james_woods
Without actual original manuscripts of the NT books themselves, all of this is meaningless speculation.