I know KS. I am probably tilting my head to the wrong side when I pray relative to the direction the Pleides cluster is moving away from us.
Jesus wife fragment is a fake
by Christ Alone 494 Replies latest social current
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tec
Well, Tec, you are pretty vicious about blaming us weak humans, but are extremely generous in letting your all powerful god off the hook. It's kind of like the 47% argument---victims---lazy----not taking responsibility. The guys at the top carry no responsiblity at all. Intriguing.
There is nothing vicious about it. It simply is. I assume you would not disagree with the conclusion. We cannot have the right to choose how we live, and then blame someone else when our choices lead to the suffering of others.
Does not compute. Jesus fed the hungry, healed the sick, raised the dead with miracles and empowered his apostles to do the same. Why are we totally on our own with this?
Well, a) when Christ physically walked with us, He did these things with those who had faith to be healed, or fed, etc; b) with faith we can do the same now (but how many have that kind of faith now?); c) we go against what He and His Father teach and command...so why do we even ask for an explanation as to why things are as bad as they warned us that things would be?
I guess a great question would be: what's the point of prayer---since we are at the mercy of other humans, and this god is not going to help cuz it's not his job, then perhaps we should pray to humans instead, since they are the only ones that are really going to step in and help.
I would suggest that prayer without faith might be pointless (other than perhaps as a placebo).
I think an all powerful god that allows a child to starve to death in order to teach a failed lesson in mercy to the rich, fat people a few miles away, is not a god worthy of worship.
Who says He is doing anything of the sort, to teach anyone of the sort a lesson?
A child starves as a consequence of not being fed; which is a consequence of poverty or neglect; which is a consequence of greed or apathy and neglect; etc, etc.
Yet this particular god allows it to happens to millions of children, for the entire history of humankind, and people fall at its feet.God does not allow it to happen. WE allow it to happen. God allows us the freedom to choose what we do with our lives; how we treat one another; whether we listen to his commands and teachings and Son; how we treat this planet that we live upon. That is what He allows. Everything that we do with those choices... is what WE allow.
Pass the buck if you want (though you don't; you just object to me not passing the buck); most people tend to pass the buck rather than take responsibility for themselves and their choices. Hey... just like Adam ;)
It would be funny if it wasn't so completely horrific. God is good. God is Great. Thank you for this food. Thank you for this Ipad. Thank you that I'm not one of those people you let die to teach me a lesson. Can you help me with this test? I have a plantars wart, God,
can you help me out? I am so blessed---not like those dark little children a world away.
How in the world would a child dying half a world away, teach some rich and/or lazy person over here a lesson?
Its not fair to change the target of the conversation.
I didn't. See my above responses to NC.
We are discussing why GOD doesnt listen to the starving kids in Africa.
How do you know that He doesn't listen?
But actions have natural consequences.
Sure others in more fortunate countries can help, i totally agree. We cant blame man for being greedy and then claim God listens and helps everyone when that is clearly a false statement.
I never said God helps everyone. He is not beholden to everyone (specifically those who reject Him or do not do as He has asked - such as look and listen to His Son)... and... not everyone asks Him.
Sure humans are greedy and selfish and thats the real cause of many of the worlds problems.
Yep.
But our actions are also the cause of the good things in the world.
Also yep.
We are lucky that our ancestors built up our countries to be rich and prosperous.
I'm not sure if that was luck, more than it was greed and invasion and taking from others. (think slavery, think native americans displaced and killed and stolen from, wars, etc)
God had absolutely nothing to do with that.
On this, we absolutely agree.
In fact God has never helped anyone.
I am sorry, but you are wrong. He most certainly has helped me. I know He has helped others, but i will speak for myself.
Looka tthe world the most religious places also happen to be the worst.
Religion is not God. Mostly, I would suggest that they are at odds with one another.
I dont believe in Islam, but one must respect the fact they really follow what they believe. Unfrotunately they dont know whats in the koran , but that doesnt change the fact they are strict in the stupidities they believe. Does god help them no, religion is a curse and
creates their pathetic social environment. Who needs a god like that, i dont, novody does.
I would not make the statements that you make about Islam; as you probably don't know what is in the Quran, yourself (only what is rendered in english, and how that is interpreted by some)... but again, religion/God... two very different things.
What about the hundreds of thousands of years during which millions of people died of starvation and disease when no other human society on earth even knew about the plight of others and could do nothing about it if they did?
What about it? That is another conversation. (one that involves discussing a world NOT meant for such things to begin with)
During all those 300 000 years your god did nothing. Suddenly along comes technology and modern communications and christians use that to get god off the hook and blame us. Pathetic.
Well, who do you blame Cofty? God... that being that you don't believe in?
Peace,
tammy
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NewChapter
I would suggest that prayer without faith might be pointless (other than perhaps as a placebo).
Hey, don't tell ME! I have plenty of food. Go tell a starving African child that their prayers are pointless and without faith, otherwise your god would feed them, afterall, he helped you oh-faithful-one, but he doesn't help them, so he blames the humans, and the faithless prayer. Poor kids and their faithless prayers.
Curious---what were you 'helped' with? Hmmm? Was it more important than feeding a starving child? Was it your faith that led to you being helped? And your merciless god can help those that stroke his ego (maybe finding keys or something) but can't be bothered to help the little ones that just don't have faith.
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cofty
Well, who do you blame Cofty? God... that being that you don't believe in? - Tammy
aaaaaarrrrrgh! Why do christians keep using that pathetic non-argument?
1 - You evaded my argument as I expected you to.
2 - My point is provisional. If your god exists, then.....
What about the hundreds of thousands of years during which millions of people died of starvation and disease when no other human society on earth even knew about the plight of others and could do nothing about it if they did? During all those 300 000 years your god did nothing. Suddenly along comes technology and modern communications and christians use that to get god off the hook and blame us.
But you knew that already.
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tec
Hey, don't tell ME! I have plenty of food. Go tell a starving African child that their prayers are pointless and without faith, otherwise your god would feed them, afterall, he helped you oh-faithful-one, but he doesn't help them, so he blames the humans, and the faithless prayer. Poor kids and their faithless prayers.
Don't twist my words. I responded with a thought on a very specific question that you asked. "What is the point of prayer?"
Oh, and I have gone hungry, I have had crimes committed against me... none of those are God's fault, and it would never have occurred to me to blame Him for the actions and consequences of others; not even as a child. But rather the people who committed those crimes. And the only reason I ate when i was hungry at low points in my life is because of the people (most often following the words of Christ) handing out food. In fact, if everyone followed his teachings (or even simply followed the law that love of others dictates), no one would be starving.
The suffering of people in this world is not on God... it is part of this world; sometimes/often as a direct or an indirect consequence of the choices mankind has made. That suffering happens to those who belong to Christ and God; and to those who do not.
Curious---what were you 'helped' with? Hmmm? Was it more important than feeding a starving child?
You are the one who is hung up on a triage style prayer/help system. This is not how it works.
And I don't know if it was more important/as important/ or less important. But it was important. (even though I do say 'it', there is more than one occassion... and i have posted about some of them before; it won't matter to you what they are)
Was it your faith that led to you being helped? And your merciless god can help those that stroke his ego (maybe finding keys or something) but can't be bothered to help the little ones that just don't have faith.
Faith in Christ and God, yes. And I do not ask for things such as finding my keys. Often I ask for something for someone else. (as to little ones without faith; again, you twisted my earlier words... and I would like to ask you a question: Why are you so big on blaming God when those who suffer and pray to him do not do such a thing?)
I would also like to impart something that Christ said.
"Jerusalem, Jerusalem, I have longed to gather your children as a hen gathers her chicks beneath her wings... but you were not willing."
We are responsible for how we treat our children. So again, blame those responsible if you must blame someone. You can't blame God.
Peace,
tammy
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tec
I did answer your question Cofty. It is not like we've never had this conversation before. This world was not meant to have pain/suffering/death. It does now, and so now those who are in this world must contend with that... until such a time as these things are no more.
Peace,
tammy
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cofty
No you have NEVER answered the question.
Why did your god do nothing to feed humans for 300 000 years before there was the technology for well fed humans to even know about the plight of starving humans?
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tec
You think I can speak to conditions of life 300 000 years ago, to even think about answering such a question?
Too many variables.
This world is suffering. No promise was ever made against that after Adam and before the dwelling of God is with men.
Peace,
tammy
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NewChapter
Why are you so big on blaming God when those who suffer and pray to him do not do such a thing?
I am not blaming it on your god. I'm pointing out how ridiculous it is to believe that your god is merciful, generous and loving, while at the same time insisting it won't help out the starving children. YOU were the one that said faithless prayers are worthless---NOT ME. So what of the prayers of the starving children? YOU are the one that claims a god loves them, but it doesn't appear to be so. Someone with so much power, so much love, so many resources turns its back on the suffering---which ironically does seem to concentrate. Perhaps this god cares more about Americans than it does Africans. Yeah, you've had some hard times, some hungry times. Your god helped you. Are you comparing that to the swollen bellies of starving children who your god does not help?
MY POINT is that humans help each other with no input from any gods. Humans can be good. AND humans hurt each other, with no input from any gods.
What is the common denominator? HUMANS. Yeah, it's always been just us reaping the rewards and consequences of ours and other's decisions. Your god does not exist. It has never helped a single person. Other humans have helped other people. So you are correct. Humans are in charge, and humans can make the changes.
What is incredibly disgusting is to tell a starving child that there is a god who doesn't care about it, because YOU'VE had your prayers answered---your prayers of faith---and THEIRS have gone unheard. And then they die. Why aggravate the issue? Are they not suffering enough? Do you really need to rub the salt in their oozing sores? If we are all realists, I think human suffering is much easier to handle. We don't need a bunch of people running around spreading fairy tales to increase the suffering.
That's just my take. But from your POV, this uninvolved god who helps Americans, Canadian, Brits, and so fourth doesn't help those that are suffering poverty beyond what can even be described. An you think that's a good thing. I find it bankrupt. But you will certainly defend you friend. That's for sure. If I had a friend that had the power to relieve the suffering of a child, and chose not to, leaving it to others, they simply would not be my friend anymore. But then, they would be real, and I would not need mental gymnastics to make it okay. I would just need reality. Loving beings don't stand by and watch this stuff. They just don't. Except your god. It does. But that's because it is not real and is powerless.
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cofty
Too many variables. - Tammy
Pathetic cop out