You seem to be really in good spirits HealthWorker- good for you! They have no power over any of us, as you well know.
I posted Cedars vid on Gerrit, higher education and OCD on my real jw friend's facebook pages . Greetings from Norway to GB and Gerrit! Love from Healthworker
by Healthworker 40 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Healthworker
Cedars: "And all because of this video being posted on your facebook page"
I did not post it in MY facebook page, but my friend's pages. So when ever anyone visits their facebook page, they will see your video. As I mentioned yesterday, 50 % still have it up and running on their pages. That means the message is being spread in Norway. I hope to reach that brother who went underground (who I mentioned earlier) and others who share our view on Gerrit's educational skills.
Baltar447: "There must be more back story to this, can you go into what led up to the JC?"
I am writing the background story as we speak and I will post it soon. I will ask for futher information about the meeting, before I attend. In that way I can obtain information about why we are called to the meeting and what will happen if we don't attend. He wrote "utvalg" in norwegian and that the BOE had met the day before and decided that. I guess we will learn more in a few days! I can say though, that much started when I simply expressed a different view than what Gerrit expresses when he visited us, to a sister in my congregation. Few days after that, 2 elders wanted to visit me. Many over here were upset after his talk and I guess they will come down hard on anyone who disagrees, to prevent any "revolution" among the brothers here.
Eric: "You seem to be really in good spirits HealthWorker- good for you! They have no power over any of us, as you well know"
Things reaced a point were they did not add up anymore. How could any sane person who believes in the Bible, defend the statements from Gerrit. And how is it possible that God's true people would turn each other in and tell the elders if you express an opinon that differentiates from WT. I truly felt, in my heart, that a line was crossed. That God would never defend a system like this. When I understood that they have no backing from the Bible to judge people in a JC, I felt I was ready to fight back. Fight back, all the way to the big apple, New York and GB. Besides I think Gerrit is married to a norwegian sister, so he will get the message in the end
Love from your brother Healthworker
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yadda yadda 2
What a great way to come out that you're an apostate.
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Healthworker
Hi, Yadda yadda!
"What a great way to come out that you're an apostate"
I think it's time to redefine that term, "apostate". I am pretty sure that it will be obvious who are the real apostates in this matter!
They will get the message
Love from you brother Healthworker
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Sauerkraut
Beware of Norse wrath! Norse have no remorse.
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RayPublisher
HW said:
" I think it's time to redefine that term, "apostate". I am pretty sure that it will be obvious who are the real apostates in this matter!"
I LOVE THAT NOTION- WHO ARE THE REAL APOSTATES??
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kepler
Healthworker,
Wherever you are, I find myself somehow involved in your confrontation, having added to this discussion - and perhaps egging you on.
I have always been out and never been in, but this organization's reach has had a devastating effect on my life anyway. So bear both factors in mind in what I say or provide from here on. You are the best judge of your situation and where you want to head from there.
About the videos, as far as I can tell, about the only things derisive about them are needle scratch noises. The real damages to the Org are done by the speaker himself. If you are to undergo a judicial conference, it sounds to me that it is largely as a result of showing this man's views for all the world to see.
You just might need those words in printed form.
I took the liberty to transcribe the text from the videos. My views on them I have already stated elsewhere. You needn't convey them unless they are suitable supplement to your own.
Here are the transcripts. Hope this helps. I suggest you read them aloud when you are asked if you have anything to say.
Whether you do so or not, you have my best wishes for your future.
Gerrit Loesch on Higher Education
Gerrit Loesch (from the Italian):
Going to university or not can be a reflection of your faith - or lack of faith - and it may indicate how present the imminence of the Great Tribulation is in your mind. What is undoubtable is that the time left is reduced.
As Paul said in 1 Corinthians 7:29.
If your are currently going to university, why don't you meditate in prayer on the possibility of dropping out and doing something better?
But for us, who scrutinize the meaning of world events in the light of Bible prophecy, there are more worthy reasons for not putting a worldly career first in our lives. We could liken ourselves to someone who sees a building with a sign that reads, "This company is running out of business." Would you apply for a job there? Of course not. And if we were working for such a company, we would wisely look for a job elsewhere. Well, on all the institutions of this world lies a sign reading: "imminent liquidation". The end is near. Yes, the Bible assures us that the world is passing away. Therefore we will be wise and will not imitate those who are an integral part of it.
Now you have listened to advice. What will you do now?
Some advocate going to university by citing the example of some elders who are attending college or that did so [ in the past]. We are not able, nor willing to tell you what you should do. Your parents and you should make the decision . We are not the masters over your faith. However, the Faithful and Discrete Slave has the responsibility to warn against spiritual dangers and to encourage, to place the Kingdom interests first. So the Slave discourages from going to college for a long period of time.
I have often heard experiences of individuals who were about to complete their college programs and who dropped out when they learned The Truth. Some other baptized individuals have turned down scholarships. What will you do? What decisions will you make? Will you refuse or not? Will you get a university education or not? You will be responsible to Jehovah for this.
We would like to praise those in the audience who dropped out of college when they accepted The Truth [as we praise] all those who after listening to this talk , will make the same decision. Maybe you still want to advocate the possibility of going to college. You may say: :You see, Brother X went to college and now he is serving in the congregation and is also a pioneer."
True, he may have survived university, so to speak. But what follows is a true experience of a young man who suffered from a compulsive disorder which caused him to wash his hands over and over again, even 100 times a day. This disorder discouraged him so much that one day he decided to commit suicide. He bought a rifle, put it into his mouth and pulled the trigger.
The bullet, however, didn't kill him, but instead perforated the part of his brain that was responsible for the compulsive disorder. He survived and after that managed to live a normal life.
Yes, it's true. He survived. But would you recommend that other people imitate what that young man did? [applause]
Similarly, some have survived college, but would you recommend that to others?
Instead of investing in a higher educaion, it would be advisable to grow in knowledge of Jehovah. In order to start knowing the Bible better, we must read the Bible every day. Every day. Are we doing that?
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Gerrit Loesch – English Version - Higher Education and OCD
Well generally speaking, what effect has the conviction that the Great Tribulation is near… do others see that we really believe it? It is not wrong to have money. It is not wrong to be rich. But not at the expense of spiritual things. Otherwise, you know, we would be like the man in the parable of Jesus in Luke 12:21 that eventually died. And Jesus said, “So it goes with someone that is accumulating riches but is not rich toward God”… That’s the key, to be rich toward God. To that end we really wanna be balanced in as to what we wanna pursue in this system of things so shortly before the Great Tribulation.
In one study 200,000 in the US… 200,000 university students in 390 institutions were surveyed. And the result was that 71% admitted that they go to college for money that they hope to earn after they finish, see? So most of the college students go for that reason, to have a higher living standard. Some go for the fame, but most go for the money. Sometimes the children wouldn’t even go, but the parents push them to go. They want to be able to say, “My son is a doctor”.
So is this really the thing to pursue this side of Armageddon? Now some have good motives. If they do, we will not judge them. It’s a personal decision. Some pioneer throughout college and they have good motives. But we have lost really too many to the world already, and it is kind of a danger.
This reminds me of an experience that was mentioned in our literature about a young man that had a compulsory behavior. He was always forced like to wash his hands many, many, times a day. He just couldn’t stop doing that. He hated himself so much for it that finally he decided to kill himself. He bought himself a gun and he pulled the trigger. And, er, the bullet went through his head, but he survived.
And some went to college and survived.
Now this young man survived and the bullet had hit this part of the brain that was responsible for his compulsory behavior. After he recovered he was normal. So, the question is: Yes he survived coll[ege] in that case we can supply it to college. He survived that operation, the bullet operation.
But would we recommend that to others? That’s a different matter.
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Gerrit Loesch TEXT on Extermination:
...Every eye, all mankind, billions of eyes will figuratively see him. They will see Jesus coming as an executioner. They will realize that what's coming upon them (the destruction) is not just the result of some natural disaster. They will realize that this was what was prophesied by Jehovah's people to come upon them.
... Now what will happen in Armageddon? Well the Bible says that there will be a greater part of mankind will be killed. And, er, it will be very dramatic. Prophecies in the book of, er, Jeremiah, prophesy about that. And in other Bible books as well. And, er, Jeremiah says that the dead will be from one end of the Earth to the other end of the Earth. Or if we look at, er, Zechariah, the prophecy, at chapter 14, and verse, er, 12... it says there...
"And this what will prove to be the scourge with which Jehovah will scourge all the peoples that will actually do..." [he's smiling] military service against Jerusalem," but now in prophecy this refers [??] to heavenly Jerusalem where we find the Messianic Kingdom. And it says - and it's scary:"There will be a rotting away of one's flesh, while one is standing upon one's feet;.and one's very eyes will rot away in their sockets, and one's very tongue will rot away in one's mouth."
Possibly having a figurative fulfillment, but also very possibly having a literal fulfillment. And Jehovah perhaps is gonna use radiation to cause this phenomena [sic] that er, people's flesh will rot away as they are standing on their feet. It will be a destruction as mankind has never seen before.
When Armageddon will happen, after that it will be a time for liberation for God's people. Not only the destruction of enemies, but liberation and relief in many ways. But there will also be a lot of work to do. Because we have mentioned in Armageddon, billions of people will die and they will have to be buried. The Bible indicates in the prophecy that there will be groups of people, of brothers and sisters, that will for a long time do nothing else than just bury the dead.
And then what else? At some time in the future the wonderful thing about the resurrection will start. The resurrection of our dear loved ones. And how are we looking forward to receiving back our parents, our grandparents, siblings, children...
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Healthworker
Sauerkraut: "Beware of Norse wrath! Norse have no remorse!"
Indeed, the Vikings still have some fighting spirits. True we are the most trustful people over here in Europe, but for sure we would make a man stand trial for his actions.
Eric: "I love that notion - who are the real apostates"
You made that obvious in part 5 of your trial! Thanks for a great job and the strength to confront them!
Kepler: " Wherever you are, I find myself somehow involved in your confrontation, having added to this discussion - and perhaps egging you on. I have always been out and never been in, but this organization's reach has had a devastating effect on my life anyway. So bear both factors in mind in what I say or provide from here on. You are the best judge of your situation and where you want to head from there."
Thanks Kepler, I appreciate your help! Thanks for providing the scripts of Gerrit's talks. Maybe it's time to draw a line! Enough is enough! We can change our lives and JWs can take a stand; no more enforcement of hate speach , no more JC , no more Shepherd book! It's time to put the record straight! I will give you update on the process.
Love from you brother Healthworker
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Londo111
Healthworker: If you choose to go, I am sure you will give a fine Witness.
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Healthworker
Hi, Londo111 !
"If you choose to go, I am sure you will give a fine Witness"
Thanks for the encouragement! I am trying to expose as much as possible on my way towards my JC . I am posting everything in a conversation with all of my jw facebook friends (in addition to the posting of Gerrit's talk on their pages - made by Cedars). The elders want this to be secret, but I make it open. By now, I think they know that I share their text messages, so I am now waiting for their next move.
As I said earlier, I will post more of the background story leading up to my JC ( june - sept 2012 ), but in my own phase.
Love from your brother Healthworker