Jesus second coming in the first century
by Jr 32 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Jr
Trevor,
I am impressed that you think Jesus would have accomplished the same thing if he had died unfaithful. Mannnn!It would be nice to talk to someone that was willing to at least look at the content of the evidence and be willing to consider a fresh look at the scriptures. That is what is referred to as searching the scriptures. I'm not interested in any more dialog with you Trevor nor will I be responding to your negative attacks. Sorry.
If anyone else would be interested in continuing please speak up. -
Jr
This discussion is to show that the scriptures indicate that Jesus began ruling as King in the first century. Over the next serveral days, we will present this information scripturally. If you are willing to see a fresh look at the scriptures, please stay tuned. Here is the first post to get you up on what had been said so far.
Before Jesus could be used in as King he had to do the things following:Jesus had to prove himself to be a son of God
Many of us believe that Jesus second coming is when he comes back to fight at Armagedom. This discussion is to show otherwise.
The bible gives unmistakable evidence that helps us determine just when Jesus was actually enthroned in heaven as King. First of all we must go back to the biblical account found at Luke 1:32 which makes a key point for us in determining just when Jesus would indeed be enthroned in the heavens, with complete kingly power. The account says:
“This one will be great and will be called son of the most high; and Jehovah God will give him the throne of David his father.”
Well you might be saying that Jesus was already the Son of God. Yes, he was. The same way Adam was and myriads of angels.(Luke 3:38; Job 38:7) Well, Adam and many angels willingly sinned against God and joined in with Satan. Many of the Pharisees claimed to be sons of God. “They said to him:
“We have one Father, God.”…Jesus said to them….You are from your
father, the Devil and you wish to do the desire of your father…”
(John 8:41,42,44)
In this same way, if Jesus could maintain his faithful course and integrity under test, he would prove that nothing could change him from imitating his father. Yes, Jehovah did call Jesus his son at baptism, but would he remain so? We well remember Satan’s words to Jesus:
“If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become loaves of bread.” (Matt 4:3)
Yes, even Satan wanted to know. So, Jesus had to prove himself under sever test to be declared “son of God” in the full sense.
“…Concerning his Son, who sprang from the seed of David according to the flesh, but who with power was declared God’s son according to the spirit of holiness by means of resurrection from the dead - yes, Jesus Christ our Lord,” (Romans 1:3,4)
So, even though Jesus had it natural, by birth, he still had to be “declared a son” after his resurrection. Then he would have proven himself an imitator of his father. He could then receive all the blessings that were promised to David concerning the “Davidic covenant” spoken of at 2 Samuel 7:12-14. :
“When your days come to the full, and you must lie down with your forefathers, then I shall certainly raise up your seed after you, which will come out of your inward parts; and I shall indeed firmly establish his kingdom. He is the one that will build a house for my name, and I shall certainly establish the throne of his kingdom firmly to time indefinite. I myself shall become his father, and he himself will become my son….” See also Psalms 89:35-37
Solomn did not fullfill all of this scripture, because his kingdom did not last. More to come...
Jr
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Carmel
........(the sound of one hand clapping).......
spelunker
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bjc2012
Trevor,
If the bible can be made to support any opinion or idea, then how can you be sure that Jesus even came to earth and died for mankind, or that he ever existed. This is something that must have a solid foundation otherwise it is meaningless. If the Bible does not give that foundation then you have nothing else because the Jews do not accept the messiahship of Jesus.
bjc
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waiting
Joining Carmel:
........(the sound of one hand clapping).......
waiting, official sidekick
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trevor
Hi bjc2012,
You ask me 'how can anyone be sure that Jesus even came to earth and died for mankind?' The answer is I cannot be sure - no one can. it comes down to weather one chooses to believe. It amounts to an act of faith in the end. Often the decision as to wheather have faith depends on the need of the person making that descision.
I do find myself asking why Jesus would come to earth to try to earn a Kingship over the earth when it was already his realm. Jesus had primacy over all creation, that means the entire universe with it,s billions of gallaxies and whatever other life forms there are.
I along with millions of other people find that the total of the sum does not equal it's parts. Perhaps a large helping of faith could blur my reasoning and make me see sense.
.................jr - You seem upset that I have have an opinion that does not match your own. I have already apologized for my ignorance in contrast to great scriptual understanding. You must learn patience with us lesser beings - it is after all - a Christian virtue!
trevor
spelling check
Edited by - trevor on 27 January 2001 8:42:1
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logical
Jesus did prove himself to be the Son of God. Thus, Psalm 2:7-8 was fulfilled:
"Let me refer to the decree of Jehovah; He has said to me: 'You are my son; I, today, I have become your father. Ask of me, that I may give nations as your inheritance, and the ends of the earth as your own possession'"this was the same one as promised to David, brought out by Peter in Acts 2:30:
"Therefore, because he [David] was a prophet and knew that God has sworn to him with an oath that he would seat one from the fruitage of his loins upon his throne"
So, Jesus was allowed to sit on the throne of Jehovah after proving himself faithful. This was the fulfillment of the "Davidic covenant" After Jesus ressurection, and return to the heavenly realms, Jehovah became his "father" in the fullest sense of the word.
Jesus was now in line for the greatest privelage ever offered to any personage in the universe. This was to sit upon Jehovah's Throne. Hebrews 1:3 says:
"He is the reflection of [his] glory and the exact representation of his very being, and he sustains all things by the word of his power; and after he ha made a purification for our sins he sat down on the right hand of the Majesty in lofty places."
Jesus was allowed to sit at the "right hand" of his father. Yes, to "sit upon Jehovah's throne". Psalms 110:1 says:
"The utterance of Jehovah to my Lord is: "Sit at my right hand until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet"
Jehovah now gave Jesus the invitation to "sit at my right hand". This brings us to the most important point of this discussion. The WTS teaches that although Jesus had been allowed to "sit upon Jehovah's throne", since his death in the 1st century, Jesus did not recieve the "throne" for rulership until 1914. However, there is a problem with this teaching.
It is impossible for an individual to be allowed to sit upon the throne and yet not actually be enthroned.
The WTS say that Jesus Christ was "enthroned" in the heavens in 1914, yet they admit that Jesus has been allowed to "sit upon Jehovah's throne" since his ressurection, close to 2000 years ago. However, there is NO WAY to "sit upon God's throne" and not actually be enthroned. Jesus own words in Matthew 21:18 show that he has been empowered as Jehovah's king:
"And Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: "all authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth
Jesus meant by these words that Jehovah had indeed given him all authority over both heaven and earth. What authority could possibly been given to him in 1914 that he did not already have!
It would be the height of foolishness to say that Jesus was going to recieve authority over the earths affairs in 1914, when clearly he states that he already recieved this authority right after his ressurection from the dead. Also, Revelation 3:21 says:
"To the one that conquers, I will grant to sit down with me on my throne, even as I conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne."
Here again, Jesus promises his faithful followers that they would too be permitted to "sit upon his throne" if they would conquer the same way he had conquered and was permitted to "sit upon his father's throne". Nevertheless, in the same way, before they could be permitted this great privelage, they too would have to prove themselves "sons" of Jehovah. Revelation 21:7:
"Anyone conquering will inherit these things, and I shall be his God and he will be my son
The prerequisite for inheriting all these things was for one to conquer and prove himself to be a "son", in the complete sense of the word. One would have to become a son, to be declared a son. He would have to become a conqueror. And then Jehovah would become his father, and he would become Jehovah's son.
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Jr
Thus,
Jesus not only became qualified because of dying faithfully, but he ascended to heaven. As the previous scriptures show, received all authority. ALL, authority. Now coupled with sitting on a throne, what conclusion will you draw? The previous post will be posted for repetion at the start of the week for those that have been away from the site for the weekend. Please follow this thread closely as it develops the subject, "Jesus coming into kingdom power in the first century". More to come... -
amicus
Jr,
I'm with TR. Why not move this over to the Bible Research Forum? This Forum is too crowded for a long term discussion. If anyone chooses to refer to any of these postings in the future, they will be easier to locate over there as well. I'm not trying to be pushy, I just think it would be easier for everyone who is interested in this discussion.