by Mindchild 40 Replies latest jw friends
Scully!
Ditto about the refugee reply of yours applied to Britain! Grrr don't get me started on the fact that I have had to work my balls off for 5 years to settle in this country, desite my heritage and claim, and some bloody terrorist will claim refugee status, living off my taxes and help kill people for free...
brit
"My body is a Temple NOT an Amusement Park"
I'm not that well up on "muslim extremism" other than what I get via the media (which is bound to be correct right? yeah...)
I suppose there is a danger that JWs are seen as a very American Christian religion and so could be a target. Large Catholic events with the pope wtc... are likely to have proper, professional security and what is protecting the assembly? ... some off duty window cleaners !
What they'd want to watch out for might not even be a device but germs. For example what if a terrorist smeared feces on a glove and those are full of staph, possibly diphtheria etc then used that glove to open the doors into and out of convention and assembly websites, the restrooms etc? Let us pray nothing like that ever happens. It would be so easy for them to do that. Someone else said the idea that terrorists might strike a church gathering is reaching but just recently that was done in Pakistan. Two American Christian women were among the five slain and dozens injured after terrorists blew up a church there. Let us pray for kindness to reign on earth some day as abundantly as in heaven.
I’m rather surprised that I got as many responses to this post as I did. Perhaps we are a changed nation after the events of 9/11. I brought up a similar scenario about two years ago in another online ex-JW discussion board and many accused me of being paranoid, that it would never happen here, we were safe from terrorists, etc.
On to your comments, first the virus I mentioned as a scenario is Hanta virus (not Hantra) and was a glitch in my spell checker.
Scully, you mentioned that the suspected terrorists talked about how simple it was to build bombs and weapons in their kitchen. IMHO, part of the blame for this information being released falls directly on the U.S. Government, which has for years made and published manuals on improvised explosives, Special Forces demolition techniques, and information about germ warfare. The CIA, in its many attempts to overthrow governments in support of US interests and policies have made such information internationally available in many destabilized countries in hopes that the locals would use the material to cause death and ruins to the powers that be. Well, what goes around comes around, and now you can find these CIA manuals and other incredibly dangerous information on the Internet. I think it is just wishful thinking now that this information will just vanish and we will be safe again. The chemical attack you mentioned is also potentially possible, and even worse could be nerve gas that was made by chemically altering commercially available pesticides.
Yes Tallyman, the fact that JW’s are very publicly active and would spread any airborne respiratory infection would certainly add favor to using them as a target to attack. However the Hanta virus I mentioned is not contagious this way. There are plenty of nasty pathogens that are already well known and available that would however work.
Detective, I agree that any large public event is a potential risk but I was also thinking that religious events have more appeal not only from the decreased security but also due to the fact of the 180 degree belief polarity (Christians=infidels) that it will act as a magnet for those who are consumed with hate. Look at the attacks in Pakistan and India for examples of this.
Elsewhere, it is true that there are no assurances that you won’t get hit by a bus tomorrow and get killed, but do you routinely go out and play on the freeway? There are certain things that dramatically increase the odds that you will either get killed or injured. Putting aside a person’s individual choice though about the risks they deem acceptable (after all there is a chance you will kill yourself by smoking, yet many people do this) the problem I see is this: even if we hated Jehovah’s Witnesses and had no concerns for 10,000 or so of them getting wiped out, the true effect of such an event would be even more catastrophic in this country. People would be even more fearful, economic productivity would fall; those in power would use the justification of protecting us to make even more outrageous actions to make this a police state. So, you would, one way or another, be effected by the events in a negative way. As dubs as a class are some of the stupidest people alive (note their collective educational levels) I think it important that we encourage them to realize the dangers they face.
Dedalus, your thinking doesn’t surprise me. People don’t like to think about unpleasant things and often attack the messenger. To you and others who think I’m trying to deliberately scare the Witnesses for revenge or whatever, it is pretty far off base. In fact, I think the best revenge someone as an individual could have is let someone else remain a dub! It is a bit like watching a frog get boiled alive, thinking they are nice and safe but their life is getting sucked out of them. Regardless, as per my comments above, the negative impact of the death of thousands of Witnesses would affect everyone in a bad way. I think we should tell as many dubs as we can about things like this. I would love to see them increase their security at their assemblies and make themselves less of a risk. I would love to see them make their assemblies members only, to keep someone from the outside from using them a platform for mass murder. My thread my be uncomfortable but these are not fun times anymore as American’s have become the hated empire all around the world. Do you get it?
SKally: the authorities would come rushing to help after the disaster had taken place. If they had any tip off’s that there was going to be an attack, they would likely provide much more security. But then, as an assembly is a multi-day event, hopefully they would just cancel the convention for safety concerns.
Finally, Anewperson said:
What they'd want to watch out for might not even be a device but germs. For example what if a terrorist smeared feces on a glove and those are full of staph, possibly diphtheria etc then used that glove to open the doors into and out of convention and assembly websites, the restrooms etc.That is exactly why I fear Hanta virus will be used. You can get it by skin contact, it is easily transmitted through the air, and it can be transmitted by insect bites.
Skipper
Dedalus, your thinking doesn’t surprise me. People don’t like to think about unpleasant things and often attack the messenger.
I didn't attack you, I attacked the message.
In fact, I think the best revenge someone as an individual could have is let someone else remain a dub!Some dubs need to be dubs and that's fine. What's wrong is when those dubs hurt other dubs or non-dubs by following their own idiocy or the directives of the Organization. Some people on this board work hard to see that dubs and former dubs can be protected for the lunacy of certain Organizational directives. But not all dubs are to be pitied, not all are bad, not all are victims, not all lead empty lives. Some are quite happy in their dub-dom.
It is a bit like watching a frog get boiled alive, thinking they are nice and safe but their life is getting sucked out of them.It might indeed be like that for you and me and many dubs who are trapped inside, but many are happy in their cage and wouldn't know what to do if let out.
Regardless, as per my comments above, the negative impact of the death of thousands of Witnesses would affect everyone in a bad way. I think we should tell as many dubs as we can about things like this. I would love to see them increase their security at their assemblies and make themselves less of a risk.This isn't what you said. You said they would die and you wrote it in a way that almost made it seem like a fantasy of yours.
I would love to see them make their assemblies members only, to keep someone from the outside from using them a platform for mass murder.You would like them to become more paranoid and suspicious of each other and of non-Witnesses? You would like them to become more isolated and esoteric and cult-like?
BTW, someone who wants to use anyone for a platform for mass murder will succeed sooner or later. I go to games here at my University with thousands of parents and students, and though there is security, it'd be the simplest thing in the world to get past it. Does that mean I shouldn't go to football games anymore? Or that only students and alumni should go to these games?
My thread my be uncomfortable but these are not fun times anymore as American’s have become the hated empire all around the world. Do you get it?There is some truth to what you're saying, but it's mostly lost in the hyperbole.
Dedalus
It was a US customs officer with a sharp nose that uncovered his stash of explosives.
To be more precise, it was a FEMALE custom agent.
The reason extremist Muslims would be more interested in attacking JWs more than other 'Christian' religions seems rather simple to me.
Have they not kidnapped and killed MISSIONARIES and those that attempt to convert/preach the righteousness of Christianity?
This is not rocket science, and I don't beleive the post was made in bad taste.
Security at JWs gatherings is a joke, and always will be. Like the bomb that blew up an Aussie KH. Remember?
Lisa
Director, UADNA
Hi all,
Of course, in these days nobody can afford to be complacent about the ever-present reality of terrorism. Still, it seems to me that buy and large, JWs can count on the apathy of the public.
It would seem their greatest danger lurks with aggrieved, disaffected former members who've been severed from their families rather than from Islam or any other radical group. For the rest of humanity and much to the chagrin of their leadership, JWs are nonentities, a big YAWN in the collecgive consciousness of the real world.
Dedalus,
There are indeed many dubs who love being a dub and some even manage to survive and perhaps even leave without any type of emotional trauma or resentment. Giving them a practical warning that they could be a victim of a terrorist attack isn't an attack on them from my perspective.
Yes, I did word my post provocatively; as to get someone to read something and let it sink in (especially for many brain dead dubs) almost requires a sludge hammer. If I scare them or make them more worried, it serves a good purpose, not because of the fear itself, but rather that they might refrain from going to a large convention or that they make more security precautions.
You do have a good point in what you say though about where a person draws the line for himself or herself as to what constitutes safe activities. There could indeed be an attack on a school. In fact, our schools have faced attacks before, but mostly from angry and disturbed students rather than foreign terrorists. Eventually the message got through from that example and the security was increased but more importantly the causes behind why things like that happened were addressed and some progress was made.
In the case of the JW's...it is not the fact that they are JW's that is relevant (say as opposed to them being Catholics) it is rather that it presents an opportunity for a terrorist to use to increase the body counts. I think a more appropriate response from the JW's would be to just have more circuit assemblies instead of having large district assemblies. If they do have the district assemblies, make them safer, for everyone's sake. Reducing the attractiveness as a terrorist target is what this thread is primarily about. It is not a personal agenda to make dubs more miserable and anti-outsider. It is simply a wakeup call.
Skipper
Elsewhere, it is true that there are no assurances that you won’t get hit by a bus tomorrow and get killed, but do you routinely go out and play on the freeway?
So according to your way of thought, we should avoid high rises, driving cars, or anything else that may increase the chance of death. I really question your motives for this post. You claim that it is out of sincerity and you would hate to see all these people die. However, if this is the case, shouldn't you be on a tirade against contributors to heart disease as most JWs probably stand a greater chance of dying from that than a terrorist bombing. You claim to be worried that something like this might have a drastic effect on the rest of society. Yet you know very well that even if your fear inducing post stopped some from attending, it certainly wouldn't stop the assemblies from happening. So your post does not serve your claimed motive.
I don't understand why you wrote your original post. I understand even less how people could reply in a sarcastic way, making light of real tragedies and death.
Why would you even propagate possible means of destruction, naming things like spreading Hanta through skin contact? So we can all go buy Anti-Hanta lotion?
On a seperate note, a lot of posters mentioned the lack of security. I think this may be wrong. Most trade shows and events I've been to, at most, have apathetic hired security guards. They are usually trained to call the police and detain suspects. At JW assemblies they usually have a massive body of volunteers who are constantly roaming the grounds looking for suspects and have efficient means to contact the police and detain people. Although they might be window washers, I think it works in their favor as these men are usually very eager to some "action" and take their jobs very seriously. I mean, come on, they can't be Police Officers or Soldiers so this is as close as they can get!
Mindchild, why wait for assemblies, regular baseball will be starting soon. Why can't they do it at a ballgame?
Guest 77
