Does the Watchtower really parallel 1st Century Christianity? (page 4)

LockedChaos

What would be the point in giving scrolls

to people who most likely couldn't read??

Stupid illustration

perfect1

recovery: really

1st century Christians proclaimed the urgency of the times = so do JWs

Yes 2000 years later, times are very urgent.

Go to the middle east and find out what you are talking about. Your comparisions are those which have been spoonfed to you by a corporation of mostly white men in New York City! You should spend some time in Israel \Palestine and get to know the culture.

Emery

1st Century Christians went by the name of "Christians", not Jehovah's Witnesses, Acts 11:26.

Acts 4:12 shows God has given no other name under heaven by which we must be saved, the name of Jesus Christ.

Jesus stated that Christians were his witnesses. Acts 1:8, "And so when they had come together, they were asking Him, saying, Lord, is it at this time You are restoring the kingdom to Israel?" 7 He said to them, It is not for you to know times or epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority; 8 but you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth."

In the referenced verse Christians were admonished to not worry about the times or epochs/seasons of the father. This is something JW's have completely and utterly failed to do for the last 150 years.

The holy scriptures of that time period was the OT. The traditional christian bible wasn't cannonized until way after the first century (361 AD), close to 300 years after the fall of Jerusalem by apostate Church fathers (according to the WTS).

Christians met in private homes for worship.

To be an elder or ministerial servant (deacon) at that time was a service, not a position of authority for leadership. Read Matthew 23:10 and 1 Cor 3:4-6.

Paul never addressed or differentiated classes of christians, it is non-existant in the NT.

Recovery, Jews can make the very same claim as to being the most persecuted. The entire history of the nation of Israel is defined by persecution which has lasted thousands of years.

Band on the Run

I read academic books and journal articles when I can. To be accurate, there was no first century Christianity with uniform practices as the Witnesses falsey teach. Rather, there were first century Christianities. I am convinced that Jesus' ministry, death, and resurrection did NOT start a new religion. When Acts opens, even the Greek Christians are conforming to temple worship. The idea that any human whether half God or not could even approach God is heretical in almost all forms of Judaism. I believe the earliest Christians believed in Jesus but were confused concerning Christology.

We don't have any correspondence from Paul's churches to Paul. Also,we have no correspondence or tradition that explains the interactions between Paul's churches and other churches, founded on other traditions. Gnosticism rejected the physicality of Jesus. He was only an illusion and any knowledgeable followers with secret gnosis can be Christ's equal. It is clear from Acts and Paul's letters that James and Peter did not agree with Paul on several important issues.

So we have a subset within Judaism, Jewish Christians, who begin seeing themselves more as Christian and less than Jewish, Greek Christians who feel no traditional allegiance to Judaism. The West knows Paul's views but other apostles were credited with visitng India and northern Africa and establishing their own traditions.

There was no single Christianity and the WT is completely wrong, as usual. The documentation is so poor that a lot of what academics believe is theory or surmise. I was taught this earlier document Q, provided the Jesus sayings in the synoptic gospel. To my shock, scholars believe Q contained no Passion narrative, which we would view as the essence of Christianity. Recently, I've read, however, that Q probably never existed, and, even later, that Q may have existed. Scholars are split.

Christianity became formalized as we know it with the first Council of Nicea, established by the Roman Emperor Constantine, to address primarily political concerns. Some groups believed Jesus was God while, for a long time, other groups believed Jesus was a subordinate creation. Only one thing is certain - diversity existed and doctrines evolved over time.

How do we filter out all the additions over the centuries to see the core of first century belief and practice? Church fathers existed before Nicea. The Wt reports that it was this perfect organization, completely harmonious and pristine until a magic date when it no longer ceased to be true. My response is that we cannot know until Christ comes again and then we can ask him. Of course, he was NEVER clear with his disciples. B/c I feel Jesus of Nazareth would reject almost all of the traditions. I would rather deal with uncertainty and tradition than blissful ignorance the WT way.

Anyone who believes that JWs re-enact or even complete 1st century Christians are ignorant. Plus, what did Jesus say was the sign that we were followers. Our love for one another. I never felt anything remotely like love in the KH. Never. All their anti Roman Catholic statements bounced back on the Witnesses, triple fold.

dqFreedom

HA HA RECOVERY!

You are the So funny! Thanks for the flash backs to BORG Talk with your Borg Speak!

You crack me up- Keep Posting!!

We here, all see that you are in your Spiritual Infancy- Theres nothing wrong with that.

I pray that you open yourself to the real truth- Get a real Bible- Spend more time reading, Pray for understanding- AND become a Christian!

If anyone here is still trying to be a JWorgBorg You are already Apostate and should be DF'ed! It would be the best thing that could hapen to you-

jookbeard

Governing Body

Committee Members

Branch Coordinators

Hospital Liaison Officials

Zone Oversears

District Oversears

Circuit Oversears

Coordinator of the Body of Elders

Congregation Secretary

Service Oversear

Special Pioneer

Gilead Missionary

Elder

Ministerial Servant

Auxiliary Pioneer

of course there is no Clergy Class in the WTS , how foolish to think so.

Emery

@Band on the Run

Great post. I know exactly what you're talking about. Historians have plenty of evidence demonstrating the diverse Christianities which existed in the first century (of course the proto-orthodox Christians won out). There wasn't one true understanding of Christianity, the form of Christianity that I suppose we are trying to define here is Pauline Christianity. Since the WT considers Paul's letters to be inspired and from God they take everything he says as "1st century" along with the different opinions of John, Jude, James, and Peter. What JW's dont realize is that the WT has merged Pauline Christianity with Jamesian Christianity. Having a strict following of the "inspired principles" of the mosaic law and yet saying we are free from it, you can especially see this when you try to debate such topics like the Sabbath or tattoos. The Watchtower is trying to walk a tight rope between 2 contrasting belief systems and they look like ignorant fools when they state as fact what 1st century truth was.

Band on the Run

Indeed, the JWs are only Christian through self-identification. The same is true for Mormons. JWs don't have a Christ centered faith. They are YWHist and called themselves Jehovah, which is a medieval innovation. The GB wants to be the Jewish Sanhedrin. Legalistic beyond belief. Read the canonical gospels in a true Bible, anyone and then tell me that they have jesus spirit. It is manifest that they do not.

Jesus is love, the Word made flesh. I believe that Jesus was both human and God. He made apocalyptic statements but most of the time he emphasized the present Kingdom of God and love. He rejected the law in many cases. JWs want to enslave us to their man made law, not God's law, which is written in our hearts.

I was fortunate enough to take courses taught by Elaine Pagels. She reported that 1st century Christians were persecuted b/c ordinary people could not witness the Eucharist (note the concept of Eucharist) and called each other brother and sister. Romans accused them of crimes against humanity for committing cannibalism and incest. Once outsiders were allowed to see the Eucharist and rumors were dispelled, Christiniantiy still lacked any status. Appropriating the OT gave them the social status of being a pseudo-ancient religion. Their first acclaim happened when Christians willingly and voluntarily stayed and nursed to all, not only Christians, during times of plague and war. When all others fled, they remained. We know that the GB would not even allow JWs to nurse JWs, let alone worldly people.

Examine the diversity of Christianity and the Early Church Father's writings. Christians used their minds and education. See St. Paul.

Art and music served Christ.

The centrality of Jesus of Nazareth, later the Christ, is the deal breaker for me. My personal preference is worship a mighty Christ, not a puny angel.

DATA-DOG

Recovery just doesn't realize what the word parallel means.

JW GoneBad

My reply to Recovery:

Ha !.. Ha!... Ha !.... Ha!

Ha!.. Ha!... Ha!... Ha!

Ha!..... Ha!..... Ha!..... Ha!

Ha!..... Ha!..... Ha!.... Ha!

Does the Watchtower really parallel 1st Century Christianity?

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