by lydia 38 Replies latest jw friends
Abbadon: Cool! You actually know who Julian May is! I have one of her books (3 actually) sitting on my desk right now!
I was more referring to a World Mind in the S. Gibson / Neuromancer anthology sort of way.
"...the greater will be the beneficial effect, because you get more of the ultra-violet rays, which are healing" - The Golden Age
[SYN], UADA - Unseen Apostate Directorate of Africa.
Like Abaddon (with whom I seem to share a lot of the same thinking) I believe in a godless universe. I see organized religion as one of the main forces standing in the way of humans reaching unity and cooperation with one another and the universe as whole.
The other day I read an interview with atheist David Mills at Joseph Alward's site, and it just made such immense sense to me. Here's the link:
http://geocities.com/forbidden_area/interv.html
Read it and open your mind to some interesting ideas. Mills was at one time a Bible-beating born again, so what he says rings true for those who were once Witnesses. There is a wonderful place where Mills quotes Eric Hoffer in the interview as saying: "the aim of a religious movement is to inflict a malady in society, then offer the religion as the cure."
Think about that for a moment. All the Christian churches do that. They tell you there is a supreme god, that humanity sins and is therefore inherently bad, and that sin seperates us from god. The only way to reconcile oneself with god, and be rid of sin, is through the religion. It creates a malady (sin and seperation), and then offers itself as the cure (the source of redemption).
And I've also studied a lot of Buddhist and Taoist thinking. While these are often popularly practiced as religions, in reality they seem more to me like philosophies or ways of thinking and living. And neither deals at all with a god or whether there is a higher being of some sort that we should worship.
I'm also a believer in spirituality, which I define as our relationships with and actions towards others and ourselves. Spirituality has nothing to do with religion. Just as true morality and ethics have nothing to do with god or religion.
S4
the question was asked:
"so how is it you include Buddhism in that statement"
for me it is simple- it is just another in a long list of "Belief Systems"
as i stated, "Same product - different package"
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just my 2
Thanks JT. That is what it is to me too. I have friends in Asia, who are Buddhists, and they definitely are involved in 'religion' of sorts. They pray, with beads. I went to an ancient temple with one, in Malacca Malaysia, and it looked 'churchy' to me. I know they don't believe in God, but they sure do worship their ancestors.
Marilyn (aka Mulan)
"No one can take advantage of you, without your permission." Ann Landers
Amazing: I cannot, for example, accept his demand that Israel not Murder (one of the Ten Commandments), yet order Israel to kill off other tribes, including women, children, and even babies. That is very confusing, and all the argumnents in God's favor to date seem rather pathetic.
This is one of the things I myself would like to look into more......
One day soon I would like to post an explanation on this subject as this subject has been one of the biggest reason for doubting God/Bible
on this board.
I also am Christian with no organized religion in my life although I attend a good church but choose not to get "INVOLVED" to heavily.
I like to learn the word there, and encourage others, and enjoy fellowship.
JT and Mulan,
AlanF posted a link in the last few days to an essay about how organizations (such as religions), develop from ideas. I've found the ideas that disciples and followers eventually developed into the religions of Taoism and Buddhism are really pretty fascinating. The religions of Buddhism and Taoism, as you referred to, have no real interest for me.
But, for instance, I find the Tao Te Ching (from which both of these religions get many of their basic concepts) an incredibly useful and practical guide for thinking and living. And it has nothing to do with temples and prayer beads, or gods, or priests, etc. That may be a better explanation of what I was trying to say.
S4
I have seen religion and all I see are more unsubstantiated beliefs. In the future I will keep an open mind and examine all the possibilities but I will not believe in something unless there is substancial evidence. I agree with the comments posted by Seeker4. Religion tries to scare people with god or the rest of the world, then tries to tell everyone that god will save them and love them if they worship him.
Spirituality? There are forces that we don't understand. Whether they are in our mind or not doesn't matter. We need to explore, to continue to learn but we don't have to jump on a feeling that we get and make a belief out of it. In other words, I refuse to let anyone, including myself, fill in the blanks between what we know and what we feel.
TimB
Dear Lydia-
I am now a christian. (Born-again, evangelical,protestant etc... are all labels that can help describe it but the Biblical one is just Christian.) A follower of Christ, Child of Yahweh.
I had, while a witness, been chanllenged by friends to study my Bible for myself and after doing that, could not in good concience remain a JW. I became a Christian at that point and disaccociated myself from the WT.
Organized religion is a loaded word but yes, I go to church. I go because Christ established it for us to teach, fellowship and worship. It's not a requirement but it does help one grow in their faith and connect us with other believers.
Well, there are belief systems and there are personal beliefs, it seems to me the only difference is how many people share it if you do not examine the exact contents.
I would invite everyone to examine their own beliefs regarding the belief systems of others. As far as the Judeo-Christian tradition is concerned, no doubt most of us are pretty familiar with it. But can you really make a fair judgement about another belief system without knowing very much about it? Because frankly if you don't, your opinion of the religion or any belief system (which frankly extends beyond religion) is also just that and only that, a belief. I might also point out that is the exact same behavior that we look down upon, the only difference is that its an individuals belief rather than one adopted by many.
Seeker makes a good point, particularly in the case of Taoism there is philosophical Taoism and religious Taoism, and this is perhaps the most distinct example. You don't have to actually practice the religion to know about it, it is very much an intellectual activity. It would only take a few minutes to learn the 4 noble truths of Buddhism, for example. To me it is simply something that should be done out of respect and a desire for being an educated individual.
BTW, you might be interested to know that as with Christianity and no doubt other religions, there are many sects of Buddhism, so a limited exposure is hardly representative of the religion as a whole. You have the pureland people who basically thinks repeating "praise Amitabha" will get you into paradise, but in contrast there are other schools that emphasize meditation and inquiry.
I'm just afraid that for a lot of ex-JW's their perception of other religions have in fact stayed pretty much the same as when they were a JW. That has nothing to do with whether you'd ever want to join a religion, but if that is the case it may be that one's thinking in general hasn't changed that much. Simply changing your position from "for" to "against" is really still two sides of the same coin.
