"My sheep hear my voice."

by tec 58 Replies latest jw friends

tec

Peace to you!
Lately there have been some accusations, allegations, concerns, and questions regarding how I hear our Lord. So I thought I would take a moment to nip this one in the bud, rather than have my words twisted further than what they have been. Twisted, I think, because of continued misunderstandings. You know how sometimes you make a statement, and somehow adds or twists it just the tiniest bit, then it snowballs from there and you suddenly find yourself defending a position you never made in the first place? I don't know if that is the case here, but the possibility is one of the reasons I also wanted to make this thread.
Some of you do not care about this at all, but this thread is for those who DO.
Our Lord is Spirit (the Spirit of Truth), and so He speaks to us in spirit, to our spirit.
Sometimes He speaks to me in words. Perhaps a question designed to make me see think about and see the answer; or an answer to something I have asked. I do not hear audible words in my ears or outside my body, or anything like that. I hear Him within me: a quiet and calm inner voice. In spirit. I could, if I wanted to, dismiss this as my own voice, or perhaps my own conscience. I am sure some of you will dismiss this as my voice alone, and that is fine. I have done the same myself. But I do not seek to convince anyone; that does not matter to me.
Sometimes the Spirit of Truth speaks to me in 'reminders'; like showing me something. A scripture recalled; a previous conversation; an example from a life lesson; something I might have seen or heard from science; an image in my mind. (I tend to be a hands on learner; i often need to see the application to understand something). So most of these are things that I have seen or heard, but have not applied or understood. Some of you will dismiss this as my working sub-conscious alone, and again this is fine. I do not seek approval or agreement.
Sometimes the Spirit leads me to understand something. ("the Spirit of truth will lead you into all things") Things I would not have known or seen on my own. Sometimes He grants me understanding; revealing truths that once received, say "ah, of course! That is in tune with a God of love! Why did I never see that before?"
Sometimes when the Spirit speaks to me it is a... knowing. This is more than a feeling; deeper than a feeling. It is as though my blood sings; or I can feel the truth... in my bones. And sometimes it is a recognizing. Of truth; of Him, my Lord. The spirit calling to the spirit. Some of you will dismiss these as mere feeling, and once again... no problemo.
Now how do I recognize that it is Him speaking to me?
Love. Mercy.
The Spirit of Christ is of love and of mercy. Many need nothing more from "hearing his voice" than recognizing and following the love and the mercy that He taught and continues to teach.
I know that I also follow him because of these.
I have also learned to quiet myself and listen in spirit, and so recieve other things. (not better or more important things than that of love or mercy; just other things that help me understand better... that might also help others understand Him better; to SEE the love in Him and in God). So I also recognize Him by what he shares (the love within it; and the truth revealed always shows a God of love); and I have learned to trust Him because He has never led me wrong and never lied to me. Had to go out on a limb at first (and still do at times), in trusting that it is the Spirit of Truth (and not just my own conscience/voice)... and it can be scary to put yourself on the line like that... but when I exercise even a little faith, he sends me more... and not once has He ever led me wrong or failed my trust in Him.
I hope this puts some things to rest. It might not. But I wanted to make myself clear. There is no one that I know of whose faith is in the Spirit of Christ who does not believe that the spirit speaks to the spirit. Not just some voice(s) in your head; and I know that some do attribute an illness or delusion to God speaking to them.
But a spiritual hearing... from the Spirit of Truth (Christ) to the spirit within you.
Peace again,
tammy
NewChapter

As you describe it today, what you experience seems to be pretty normal for all humans. I have all of those experiences myself, and it doesn't take faith, and I don't attribute it to the external. I think it is safe to say it is not the voice of the lord, since I have no faith in that kind of thing. Yet I still have those moments of 'knowing' and understanding. I still find unexpected solutions to questions and problems, because the brain works on many levels. Sometimes this sensation is stronger than at other times, and may be linked to how strongly I feel about something, or how much it matters. You say this voice is internal (which is a voice we all have) but you attribute it to something external. Does is ever occur to you that you are simply carrying on an inner dialog? Is it ever surprising to you that your lord's personality nicely matches what you think of as a good personality? Does it matter that others that experience the same thing come to different conclusions?
As evidence I offer that you hear a name that has already been suggested to you. I don't think you came up with that name independently, or else others would be making the same claim, but it was only after it was suggested to you that you started posting that you heard it.
So that's that inner dialog that we all pretty much partake in daily. But there is more. What do you say to someone that has visions? Is this a red flag for you? Do you think this is the same thing? There can be many ways to describe the internal dialog, and some use the word voice. But when it comes to visions, we don't all experience that. That's actually seeing things that aren't there, and can't be mistaken for normal inner dialog---unless we are talking about imagination---in which case we are just making things up. But if a person sees a vision, they ARE making it up, but when they can't distinguish it from reality the problem sets in.
Do you encourage people that see visions? Do you encourage people that may be experiencing this voice differently than you do? If they tell you it's the lord, and you think they are nice people, does that make it so? And if this is internal, a message to just you, why is it necessary to share it? Could not your lord simply share it as he sees fit? Afterall, would he not be the one to determine if the person is ill? You often say a person must have faith and believe before they experience this. I argue that's not necessary at all. But using your argument, is it correct to conclude that if a person does not hear the message themself, then doesn't that mean that their faith or emotion is not ready to hear it, and that's why your lord has chosen not to reveal it to them? In that case, are you going against his direction by spreading that message that you claim you are not spreading, but since you can't quit talking about it, you are indeed spreading it.
I think personal revelations are best kept personal. It would appear you lord agrees since he chooses to reveal these things to individuals rather than announcing them from the mountaintops for all to hear.
sabastious

When someone is having problems with their self esteem a psychologist might suggest that they pay special attention to their "Self-talk" with intent on switching the negative with positive and upbuilding. This is how the Bible describes the "Holy Spirit" which is reminiscent of the Native American's "Great Spirit." I think God can, at will, take over that entirely internal process every once in a while if he really wants you to pay attention to a certain concept. I get what you mean about if you didn't know better you could mistake the "voice" for the same phenomenon that is described as conscious thought. However, only the person experiencing KNOWS the difference and the rest are left to speculate, or murmer depending on who you are.
-Sab
elderelite

Tec, do you understand the position you take when you say that you dont hear the words audibly but rather hear them in the spirit and could dismiss them as something comming form yourself...? And then all of a sudden you hear the whole jeshua name...? And then say some are mocking and twisting. Really? You ask me to belive its winter time when its 100 degrees in july.
tec

I hear you, Sab. And you are right in this (though if one has faith, one can also ask, and perhaps be given an answer):
However, only the person experiencing KNOWS the difference and the rest are left to speculate, or murmer depending on who you are.
Which is how I know that others will dismiss it as a, or b, or c. Because they are not ME. I am the only person (other than my Lord) who knows what happens within me.
Peace,
tammy
NewChapter

Sab--what do you think about visions? Do you think this is different than Self Talk? I ask, because most of us have this internal voice, as you agree, but seeing visions is very different, and not experienced by most people. So a person can attribute their inner voice to God, if they choose, but what do we do with visions, which are far outside the normal experience of most of us?
tec

As you describe it today, what you experience seems to be pretty normal for all humans. I have all of those experiences myself, and it doesn't take faith, and I don't attribute it to the external. I think it is safe to say it is not the voice of the lord, since I have no faith in that kind of thing. Yet I still have those moments of 'knowing' and understanding. I still find unexpected solutions to questions and problems, because the brain works on many levels. Sometimes this sensation is stronger than at other times, and may be linked to how strongly I feel about something, or how much it matters.
I cannot speak for you.
For me, I know my own inner dialogue well... I also know when I am hearing or being led by the Spirit of Christ. I did not always. I had to let go of fear and doubt, and put faith in Him.
You say this voice is internal (which is a voice we all have) but you attribute it to something external.
Actually, the spirit is WITHIN. So not external.
"the kingdom of God is within you'
Does is ever occur to you that you are simply carrying on an inner dialog?
With some things, the possibility does occur to me. Some others, I know different. But as Sab so eloquently stated above...
Is it ever surprising to you that your lord's personality nicely matches what you think of as a good personality? Does it matter that others that experience the same thing come to different conclusions?
Um... no. It has nothing to do with what i think of as a good personality. His 'personality' matches that of love. I have let go of some things that I thought were of love; when I have learned what love is FROM Him... not the other way around. I changed for Him, his personality did not change to suit me. Also, it does not matter to me what conclusions other people draw from their experiences, just as I am sure it does not matter to anyone else what conclusions i draw. I mean, does it matter to you that I draw different conclusions than you?
As evidence I offer that you hear a name that has already been suggested to you. I don't think you came up with that name independently, or else others would be making the same claim, but it was only after it was suggested to you that you started posting that you heard it.
Well, I know I did not come up with it independently. Which is why I have not used it, and have avoided it. But I have heard other things from other people that my spirit bears testimony to as well... and these do not bother me as much as this has. Perhaps because I do not fully understand the importance of this. I asked to give an answer to the one asking me.
So that's that inner dialog that we all pretty much partake in daily. But there is more. What do you say to someone that has visions? Is this a red flag for you? Do you think this is the same thing? There can be many ways to describe the internal dialog, and some use the word voice. But when it comes to visions, we don't all experience that. That's actually seeing things that aren't there, and can't be mistaken for normal inner dialog---unless we are talking about imagination---in which case we are just making things up. But if a person sees a vision, they ARE making it up, but when they can't distinguish it from reality the problem sets in.
Visions are not necessarily a red flag to me. I mean, they CAN be a red flag... but that does not mean that they ARE a red flag. I do not have qualifications to state one way or the other; or suggest that someone else is mentally ill or not, especially not over the internet.
If they tell you it's the lord, and you think they are nice people, does that make it so?
No.
And if this is internal, a message to just you, why is it necessary to share it?
Could not your lord simply share it as he sees fit?
Yes. But perhaps he does not see fit to share with someone who would not want to hear from him. But makes no restriction upon others sharing what he has given when another asks a question? He did say to His disciples that they would be His witnesses. His disciples did not all die in the first century.
Afterall, would he not be the one to determine if the person is ill? You often say a person must have faith and believe before they experience this. I argue that's not necessary at all.
Perhaps it is NOT necessary; but it is how He works, out of respect and love for the choices people make?
But using your argument, is it correct to conclude that if a person does not hear the message themself, then doesn't that mean that their faith or emotion is not ready to hear it, and that's why your lord has chosen not to reveal it to them? In that case, are you going against his direction by spreading that message that you claim you are not spreading, but since you can't quit talking about it, you are indeed spreading it.
Or it is not important to them. Or perhaps the person sharing is mistaken, or not understanding it themselves.
But perhaps what they are not ready for is to hear from Him (or perhaps they do not understand that they can; perhaps they are listening to falsehoods instead)?
Christ also said to his disciples that they would be brought before all manner of people; and that the Holy Spirit would give them words, and would lead them into all truth. Not everyone wanted to hear Christ either... his message... but that did not stop Him from speaking truth. Because he came as a WITNESS to the Truth. Which is what he asks of those who belong to Him.
Peace,
tammy
OnTheWayOut

Sab.- However, only the person experiencing KNOWS the difference and the rest are left to speculate, or murmer depending on who you are.
Tec- Which is how I know that others will dismiss it as a, or b, or c. Because they are not ME. I am the only person (other than my Lord) who knows what happens within me.
I call B.S. on that. Even the person experiencing can be wrong and not really know the difference. Tec even admitted she could mistake the experience. There are people that know many things are true and the things aren't true. They know that voices or aliens or little green men under the bed or in their head are doing. Only the conspiracy theorists know what's really happening and anyone disagreeing is wrong. B.S.
When psychology can explain what you are experiencing, you just know it's wrong because you just know. B.S.
Let me "twist" your opening post. Since I twist, feel free to ignore this. You know, absolutely know, that Christianity is right. You entered that decision despite any evidence that might be contrary. Upon knowing, you heard of at least one other person that "heard" details from God, the Holy Spirit, or Jesus himself. You felt that you are just as confident in your faith and must be experiencing the same thing. Next thing you know, you pick up their name for this voice or knowing and you KNOW it also.
Tec, this is the same way that Mormonism formed (or others, take your pick.). One guy convinced other "spiritual" people that he knew. Soon, they knew. But the one person was a con artist. I know that you know that the Lord wouldn't lead you via a con artist or a mentally disturbed person. But I was there once too. I knew that God, Jesus, holy spirit, whatever led me to "the truth" and spared my life. It's really jolting when you learn that what you were led to isn't what you knew it to be. But that is where you might have to get to realize that what led you wasn't what you knew it to be.
NewChapter

I mean, does it matter to you that I draw different conclusions than you?
Well no, I don't think it would matter to either of us, because we claim a different source for our conclusions. I recognize that all humans have an inner dialog and a phenomenal brain that works quickly and sometimes without effort, to draw things together and form a sense of 'knowing'. You recognize this also, but sometimes attribute it to your lord. So my question, to be more specific, is does it ever puzzle you when someone who claims the exact same source, the lord, comes to a very different conclusion? Not a conclusion that is different in shade or depth, but a different conclusion. From the exact same source.
I suspect (and of course this is a guess) that you may say that people can be mistaken, or they are at different points in their understanding (if opposite can be described as merely different) and they heard what they needed and could handle at that time. So what follows is in anticipation of your anwer, based on other answers you have given. In that case, it makes my argument even stronger that these things should be kept personal. The ideas are all conflicting, highly suseptible to suggestion, and leads a person to have to choose what is 'right' because if they listen to their own voice and give it more weight, and opposites can't both be 'right', then why share? If the idea is that the answer is right, FOR THAT PERSON, (even though the source is the same, some perceive his personality very differently than you do, which is curious) then it should stay with that person. It would seem that your lord wants different people to have different understandings of who he is, because they are picking up different messages.
Berengaria

Sigh

"My sheep hear my voice."

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