Jesus had to have been born 4 to 10 BCE or history is incorrect.....

by EndofMysteries 11 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  EndofMysteries

  I was looking up some unrelated things and came upon this.

  Herod the Great(who Jesus was hid from), Herod Archelaus(after he began rule Jesus returned to Nazareth), and Herod Antipas(who killed John the baptist). When Herod the Great died, those two sons from all historical sources are showing to have ruled from 4BC onwards. Herod the Great is the one who ordered, when he had come to learn about the birth of the King, all 2 years or younger. This is when Joseph had been told in the dream to flee to Egypt until he dies. Since he died around 4 BC, and Jesus was a 'young child' when returning to Nazareth, that would be a couple years prior.

  Josephus says Herod died after a lunar eclipse, and it's verified in 5BCE, 4BCE and 1BCE of lunar eclipses.

  It's fact he executed his own wife and 2 sons. Nothing recorded about killing of infants, but Bethlehem being such a small villiage at the time and surrounding areas could have been few.

  So the events line up, but the current calander doesn't match up. I wonder how it had been figured what year he was born?
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  Christ Alone

  wiki says this: Two independent approaches can be used to estimate the year of birth of Jesus, one based on the nativity accounts in the gospels, the other by working backwards from the date of the start of his ministry . Most scholars assume a date of birth between 6 and 4 BC . [5]

  Three independent approaches to estimate the dates of the ministry of Jesus are: first, the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, second: the date of the building of theJerusalem Temple and third, the date of the death of John the Baptist. [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11] Scholars generally estimate that the ministry of Jesus began around 27-29 AD and lasted at least one year, and perhaps three years, or more. [6] [8] [12] [13]

  Diverse approaches have been used to estimate the date of the crucifixion of Jesus. One approach uses the attestations of non-Christian sources such as Josephus andTacitus. [14] [15] Another method works backwards from the historically well established trial of Apostle Paul in Achaea to estimate the date of his conversion. [16] [16] [17] [18] Two independent astronomical methods have also been used, suggesting the same date, i.e. Friday, April 3, 33 AD. [19] [20] [21] Scholars generally agree that Jesus died between 30-36 AD. [8] [16] [22] [23]
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  Phizzy

  Of course, none of this is vital unless you are a wacky religion like the WT trying to make the life of Jesus fit your wacky looney prophecies.

  Also, there is no great proof that Jesus existed anyway. The search for the historical Jesus has been going on for a very long time, and he aint really been found yet.
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  QC

  Confluence of Data Affirms Jesus Birth is circa Tishri 1 (September 8) of BC 2

  Zachariah, the father of John the Baptist, was a priest "of the course of Abia (Abijah)" according to Luke 1:5. There are 24 courses [divisions each with six families to perform festal sacrificial services] of priests according to I Chronicles 24. Abijah's course (division) was the 8th course among the 24 courses. When the Jewish Temple was destroyed by the Roman Governor Titus on August 5, 70 AD, the first course of priests had just taken office. By tracing back carefully, the 8th course would have ended their duties on Av 11 (July 13), BC 4. The birth of John the Baptist would be 280 days (9 months and 10 days gestation) later, circa Nisan 4 (March 20) BC 3. The birth of Yeshua (Jesus) would have been six months later (Luke 1:36) in the fall circa Tishri 1 (September 8), which is the beginning of year BC 2. When the Persian Magi came to give gifts (after Herod co-opts them to locate Jesus) Jesus was living in a house, no longer living in a manger. (Mt 2:11) Joseph and Mary flee to Egypt after an angel warns them of Herod's plot to kill Jesus.(Mt 2:13) Upon news of Herod's death, on Shevat 11 (January 14) BC 1, they return to Judea. Arrival back to Judea was circa Elul 29 (August 27) which is the end of year BC 1 when Jesus was about 2 years of age.

  This fits 29 CE timeline for when Jesus began his ministry and 33 CE for when he was crucified. Herod's death is key to sorting this out.
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  Leolaia

  These give precedence to the Matthean birth narrative. As is well-known, the two nativity accounts are irreconcilable. I am convinced that the Lukan narrative presumes a different chronology entirely and places Jesus' birth in AD 6 and his death in AD 36. The author was probably dependent on Josephus and this scheme fits well with the chronology of Herod Antipas in Josephus. On this view, the Herod of Luke 1:5 was not Herod the Great but Archelaus.
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  EndofMysteries

  QC but if Herods son's began ruling in 4BC, then Herod must have died in 5 or 4BC himself. Which would mean Jesus would have had to have been born prior to him dying or else he wouldn't of had to flee.
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  EndofMysteries

  and Matt and Luke.....could be both true.....first he is born in bethlehem, then goes to jerusalem for the 8 days, then goes to Egypt for a year or 2, then back to Nazareth.

  And Heroid Antipas and Herod Archelaus both began in rule at the same time, both in 4BC from their father Herod the Great. They had split territories.
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  QC

  @EndofMysteries

  And Heroid Antipas and Herod Archelaus both began in rule at the same time, both in 4BC from their father Herod the Great. They had split territories.

  Yes, sorta. See sidebar

  @ Leolaia

  the two nativity accounts are irreconcilable.... the Herod of Luke 1:5 was not Herod the Great but Archelaus.

  updated findings disagree

  HEROD THE GREAT was alive at the time of the Messiah's birth according to Matthew 2:1. One of the problems which scholars have had in dealing with the time of our Lord's birth is a reference in Josephus, Antiquities where he records an eclipse on March 13, BC 4 a nd says that it was "shortly before Herod died." However, the actual date of the eclipse was is January 10, 1 B.C. and is listed as eclipse number 1,860 in Theodor Oppolozer's Cannon of Eclipses (Dover, New York, 1962). That eclipse -- according to John Pratt -- was listed as TOTAL for 51 minutes near midnight and centered over 15 degrees east longitude -- which is PERFECT for having been viewed in Jerusalem. And, it fits perfectly the actual date of Herod's death (according to Roman history) which was Shevat 11 (January 14), BC 1.

  Time between the birth of the Messiah and Herod's death is necessary since Joseph and Mary with the baby fled to Egypt and did not return until after Herod's death according to Matthew 2:18-21.

  Sidebar: Antipater became 'co-ruler with his father and in no way different from a king' (Josephus, Ant. XVII.2). This was in 4 B.C. Yet Antipater schemed to kill his father. When Herod heard about it he recalled Antipater from Rome to try him. He was convicted of high treason and Herod sent a request to Caesar to have him executed. Herod at this time changed his will and completely expunged Antipater's name from memory. It is assumed by many that shortly after this Herod died and was succeeded by Archelaus. But when Archelaus assumed power he was reckoned by Josephus as one who 'had long exercised royal authority' (War II.26). Obviously, Archelaus reckoned his rule from 4 B.C. while Herod was still alive. And Herod remained alive another three years."
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  Leolaia

  Hi QC...I agree that if we are talking about Matthew's account, as your post is doing, then obviously the Herod in question in that story is Herod the Great, which demands a "BC" date for the birth of Jesus. My contention is that Luke-Acts probably has a very different scenario, dating Jesus' birth to AD 6.
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  mP

  EOM:

  and Matt and Luke.....could be both true.....first he is born in bethlehem, then goes to jerusalem for the 8 days, then goes to Egypt for a year or 2, then back to Nazareth.

  And Heroid Antipas and Herod Archelaus both began in rule at the same time, both in 4BC from their father Herod the Great. They had split territories.

  MP:
  Not quite, Mt and Lk tell incompatible stories, one says the family went to Egypt the other says they returned to N, they cant both be right. THe simple answer is of course that they are simply making up bullshit hence the multitude of incompatible contradictions. The most famous is the ridiculous clash of geneologies where by they cant agree when the lists converge but they also have a very big difference in the number of generations.

  We are also told in one of ghe geneologies that Jesus is the son of .. Heli which is greek for Sun... go figure..