Firearms in USA

by Haereticus 28 Replies latest jw friends

  • Haereticus
    Haereticus

    WildTurkey
    Thanks for the quote which was easy to guess although I was DF'd about 30 years ago. My question was inspired because this recent incident and I know this is truly a hot issue to ask about.

    LB
    In spite of road accidents I assume that one can own car without intention to kill. I just wonder what the death toll would amount up to if motor vehicles would be used primarily for fun and pleasure as much as guns?

    Undecided
    If I am not grossly mistaken carrying a sword, open or concealed, is regulated pretty well over this continent. At least in Finland you are better to have a good explanation even carrying a standard knife in your pocket in suspicious situation. If this knife found in your bootleg you are already in trouble.

    Seeker4
    It is not everybody that will take up hunting just for the thrill of killing animals. Those hunting seasons here used to be quite wet and people did hurt others and outsiders but nowadays hunters are quite sober except the ones that prey birds. And what comes to self defence I have heard a quote that in USA the chance to get hurt from your own gun or from gun of ones familiar outnumbers well the chance of getting hurt from a gun of total stranger.

    Amazing
    These issues are difficult because to start with this word freedom has a different meaning there and here.

  • Seeker4
    Seeker4

    Amazing: "In the early 1980s the Society prohibited JWs from owning handguns. So, the only remaining JWs owning guns would be those who had hunting rifles."

    I think you're mistaken. There is no prohibition against owning handguns.

    Haereticus: People who would drink and hunt have the same problem as those who would drink and drive - and should be treated accordingly.
    Yes, you are much more likely to be shot by your own gun than by a stranger. Gun locks are cheap in this country, and should be on every gun in a home, especially if there are children around. Also ammo locked away. Just obvious safety precautions.

    Hunting in this part of the US is a long tradition, and there are some people who are extremely good at it. There are some yahoos around, but most of the hunters I know are bright, independent thinking people with a considerabe knowledge of what they do. Real hunting has very little resemblence to what hunting tv shows and videos indicate. Going to a game farm, being set in a stand by a guide, and then passing up a dozen "smaller" deer until your "trophy" comes along is a fantasy world enjoyed by a few people with lots of money. It has nothing to do with traditional hunting.

    S4

  • Abaddon
    Abaddon

    Oh goody!

    Firearms debate! Firearms debate!

    Massive European/American divide!

    One side essentially not understanding what the other is saying and vica-versa, just like the death penalty debate.

    These debates are REAL doodies... can't think why I didn't try to start one earlier, so thanks Haereticus.

    Mark you, as the gun debate typically follows the same course as a piano being chucked out of a window, we could just be wise and say nothing...

    ... aw, NADS to that!

    Basically the Europeans will discuss the huge number of people of all ages killed by guns in the USA every year, the accidental deaths, how one's own gun is statistically quite likely to be used on you, or by you on a family member, accidentally or deliberately, about the the 'snap' killings that would probably not have happened without a gun (stabbing someone to death is far harder to do, psychologically speaking, in terms of sticking the knife in to warm moving flesh, than pulling a trigger at a distance), the easy and free availability of guns to criminals, how suicide is really easy when everyone has a gun, how the defence that guns are needed to resist despotic governments arguement is a crock of shit, as Eastern Europe seemed to do pretty well rebelling against Communism with very low levels of gun ownership, how the Ammendment giving the right to bear arms was framed in a frontier society with no police force, and therefore, as an Ammendment itself is probably due for another Ammedment to bring it up to the 21st or even the 20th Century, how the number of guns in a society is linked to the number of gun deaths in a society, but how discussing it is utterly futile, as there are so many guns in the USA there is effectively nothing that can be done to resolve the situation, especially since sending the army door-to-door to collect them (the only viable way to get them) would just make the NRA come in its pants and tell everyone how right they were all along saying you needed guns to resist despotic governments.

    The Americans, essentially, will say they like having guns, how their daddy had a gun, how everyone has guns where they are from, how low crime is where they are, how important hunting is to their way of life, how it's a Constitutional right (more unbreakable than a Biblical commandment apparently, and never ever suggest that it might be outmoded and irrelevant), and get increasingly irate as they feel their rights to have guns are being attacked, and getting rid of guns would result in a huge crime wave, as only criminals would have guns, and they even utter on occasion the immortal 'the only way they'll get my gun away from me is by prying it out of my cold dead hands' line.

    The Europeans think the Americans are gun obsessed yahoos with no real idea about how to stop people getting shot, trapped in a violent gun-glorifying, gun-filled society from which they could not escape if they wanted to.

    The Americans think that the Europeans are soft, liberal glasses of water, who would have been in trouble if it hadn't been for the US in WWII (that ALWAYS comes up), and who have the cheek to attack America when they have more than enough problems of their own to sort out.

    And, as everyone cannot really understand the opposite sides' point of view, everyone is convinced their opinion is right.

    But, more, much more than this, I think there is no way the anti-gun lobby can win the debate.

    After all, they don't have any guns, do they?

    Debators ready?

    On your marks, get set, go!

  • Seeker4
    Seeker4

    That's agoodun, Abaddon. Let's go get drunk, take the .22s and plink at a few road signs!!

    Yehaw - ain't America grand???

    But I do have to tell you. As a gun-owning, hunting American from a rural state - I still find the NRA REALLY scary, and the idea of militias even more so. Have you seen the people involved in them? Man, the total number of teeth in a militia group seems to equal the member's average IQ - and we're not talking three-digit numbers here.

    S4

  • Valis
    Valis

    My congo had mostly upper middle class assholes and many of them thought it was sporting to shoot little birds w/big shotguns.

    Sincerely,

    District Overbeer

  • picosito
    picosito

    Seeker4 said:

    "In other words, I would assume that someone coming into my home for no good purpose is threatening to kill me, or is prepared to, and I would respond according to that assumption.
    Does this make sense? Any other views out there?"

    You got it. WTS official policy is grab anything convenient such as a broom or mop to disable the attacker. Total BS. Attacker will kill you first, then terrorize your loved ones. Handy legal firearm only answer unless your a martial arts dude. WTS bends over backwards to be "politically correct." Cultural Marxism. The early 80's call to disarm Dubs of handguns was because of some revolt in the South Pacific (or over there somewhere in Melanesia) and WTS did not want local authorities to think its subjects went around armed. So we ALL had to bite the bullet (heh heh).

  • Amazing
    Amazing

    Seeker:

    "I think you're mistaken. There is no prohibition against owning handguns."

    Check out the early 1980s Watchtower articles. I believe 1981-82 would be about right. I specifically recall their new stand that JWs are not to own handguns, as their only legitimate purpose, accoridng to the Society, is for killing another human.

    Maybe someone had one of those Wt CD's going back to 1980 and can search for the article. I have the bound volumes, but I will have to check tonight when I can get to them.

  • Dutchie
    Dutchie

    I remeber an article in one of the magazines that also dissuaded the use of the "granny bat." You know, some old women living alone would keep a baseball bat by their bed for protection and its called the "granny bat". Well the WBTS says that all women who had bats by their beds for protection would have to get rid of them because they might possibly hurt someone. Women living alone were counselled to turn to Jehovah for protection.

  • LB
    LB
    JWs are not to own handguns, as their only legitimate purpose, accoridng to the Society, is for killing another human.

    After making this claim a few years ago they backed off from it saying that any witness who owned a handgun might not be allowed to have special privledges. I know for a fact that elders from the area I live in wrote the society and the letter they received back said handguns were allowed to be owned, but carrying them for self defense wasn't. So in typical JW fashion the entire situation is as clear as mud.


    Never Squat With Yer Spurs On

  • Bendrr
    Bendrr

    Abaddon, in reply to your post let me say this. If you promise not to believe everything you hear about Americans I promise not to believe everything I hear about Europeans.
    We're not a bunch of gun-nuts. The gun owners of America have their radical fringe element just like any other group of people. They don't represent me or any other responsible gun owner.

    As far as the JW prohibition of handguns, it's a crock as far as I'm concerned. When Jesus sent out his apostles, he told them "gird your sword on your side". There's little doubt why.
    If a dub's life were being threatened say in a robbery or rape situation I doubt they'd object to a "worldly" person using deadly force to save them.
    When I was growing up, my dad kept a .22 rifle and a 12-guage shotgun in the house. He told me and my little brother that shotgun could cut a man in half and made it pretty clear that it WOULD be used if someone broke in.

    whatever...

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