by Bobcat 33 Replies latest watchtower bible
Just another example of " you can make the bible say whatever you want it to say "
Just think of all the commentaries of every scripture in the bible and all the possible interpretations of them , now explain to me how the bible was written for the average man/woman to make any sense of it .
It`s all bullshit
smiddy
The JW's I overheard yesterday were bubbling over with excitement after this watchtower study.
They REALLY think the big A is imminent even though they have gone through all the let downs of the past.........
I think that the peace and security thing was cried out in 66 AD when the Zealots got the Roman's out and from the city... but they came back so fast (probably within a couple of weeks) that everyone who thought they were save and protected and in peace suddenly where "trapped".
It is a very simple but also very logical explanation in that time spirit :)
From that commentary it seems like saying " peace and security " when none exists could be the attitude of individuals. There are always people who live their lives unaware of consequences until it is too late. What is the source of that comment? Don't go all WT on us and not mention your source! LOL!!! Thanks Bobcat, I always enjoy your posts.
DATA-DOG:
Thank you for your comments. The saying, after the opening statement can be broken down into a ABBA type pattern. Where "A" is the illustration and "B" is the statement that the illustration supports:
Opening clause:
Now as for the times and the seasons, brothers, YOU need nothing to be written to YOU. For you yourselves know quite well . . .
ABBA statement:
A - that Jehovah's day is coming exactly as a thief in the night.
B - Whenever it is that they are saying: "Peace and security!" . . .
B - then sudden destruction is to be instantly upon them
A - just as the pang of distress upon a pregnant woman; and they will by no means escape. . .
By analysing it this way, it can be seen that:
What "they are saying peace & security" about is "Jehovah's day." To illustrate, if a family went to bed without locking the house, they would , in effect, be saying they are not worried about "a thief." This would have nothing to do with whether the husband and wife were getting along, or whether the kids were doing good in school. It only says that they are not worried about the possibility of a thief breaking in. This very much parallels the idea in Luke 17:26-30 where Jesus says that people would be going about their business blithely unaware of his return.
A few weeks after Jesus spoke in Luke 17, in Matthew 24:36-42 the same illustration is used (although with less detail than in Luke) with the addition of, "and they took no note." The people of Noah's day had an attitude of 'peace and security' only in connection with the possibility of divine intervention. Whatever other problems they faced were moot to the discussion. (See here for variations of "and they took no note.")
These sayings of Jesus were already circulating among the disciples when Paul wrote 1 Thessalonians. This is why Paul could say that they 'knew these things quite well' already.
It is also interesting that the object of the verb ("are saying") is left unexpressed. It is simply "they." "We" know, but "they" are unaware. But in verse 6 "they" are identified as "the rest." And "the rest" don't just fall asleep sometime in the future, but they are already "asleep."
In other words, as far as divine intervention is concerned, "the rest" already had a 'peace and security' attitude about them. That attitude would continue until the day of divine intervention suddenly broke out. Similarly, in Luke and Matthew above, Jesus isn't saying that during the last days people would start to 'marry and plant and build.' Rather, they would be continuing to do those things as they had been before. It is just that any evidence of his coming return that comes to light during the last days is ignored also.
The Society's idea that "world leaders" would be promoting a 'cry of peace and security' is pure speculation built on a saying that is taken out of its context. This is why their history is full of false alarms. Every political situation that might involve 'peace and security' that comes along just might be it. But never is. On the other hand, seen from Paul's viewpoint, "world leaders" are a part of "the rest," and so their actions and attitudes exemplify how "the rest" view a possible divine intervention.
By the way, the ESV better captures the sense of the what Paul is saying:
While people are saying, "There is peace and security," then sudden destruction will come . . .
The NWT's, "Whenever it is that they are saying . . .", shows that the translators already believed in a 'peace and security' event when they translated 1 Thess 5:2.
Take Care
The first is that we get that Agenda 21+, where everyone is enslaved globally and there are no more independent nations. In that event, we will all be working for the Rothschilds and we will be their slaves.
I thought that we were already enslaved by the Rothschilds and were already their slaves.
(according to all the Illuminati theorists)
Heartofaboy - "They REALLY think the big A is imminent even though they have gone through all the let downs of the past..."
No.
They need the big A to be imminent because of all the letdowns in the past.
One more thought related to 1 Thess 5:2, 3 I wanted to add so that it is sort of cataloged here.
In Matthew 16:13 there is a use of the verb legosin ("are saying") that illustrates the idea that "are saying" in 1 Thess 5:2, 3 refers to an attitude or viewpoint, rather than a future historical event.
Matthew 16:13 says:
". . . Jesus went asking his disciples: "Who are men saying the Son of man is?" "
"Are . . . saying" here is the same verb and is inflected just as in 1 Thess 5:2, 3. Jesus is clearly asking his disciples, 'What viewpoint do people have of me?' or 'What do people believe or think about me?' Naturally, the disciples would pick up on this by having heard other people talk or voice their opinions.
If you were to replace "are . . . saying" with "are . . . crying out," it would drastically change the meaning of what Jesus is asking. It would imply that some people were making public announcements about Jesus and he wanted to know what they were saying.
This is what the Society is doing when they rephrase 1 Thess 5:2, 3 as 'the cry of peace and security.' And so, it naturally leads to the idea that there will be some official public announcement of peace and security.
Looking at it from another standpoint, saying that "Peace and Security" is some future event is, at best, a useless prophecy. The 20th century has already had significant 'peace and security' events (Armistice Day, End of WWII, the establishing of the UN with "peace and security" as a major theme of its charter, the end of the cold war, [there may be others]).
"Sudden distruction" of the world system, of course, never followed those events. So given that 20th century history, how could any 'cry of peace and security' be an indication that anything was going to follow. You could never know until afterwards, which would make the 'peace and security'event a non-harbinger.
I really think Paul was referring to the whole time period the early Christians lived in- not a specific proclamation of "peace and security", but the claim by Rome that it had been established. Paul had travelled widely through the Roman Empire, and would have been aware of these claims.
Pax Romana (Latin for "Romanpeace") was the long period of relative peace and minimal expansion by military force experienced by the Roman Empire in the 1st and 2nd centuries AD. Since it was established by Caesar Augustus it is sometimes called Pax Augusta. Its span was about 207 years (27 BC to 180 AD). [1]
The Legions patrolled the borders with success, and though there were still many foreign wars, the internal empire was free from major invasion, piracy, or social disorder on any grand scale.
The Pax Romana started after Octavian (Augustus) defeated Mark Antony in the Battle of Actium. He became princeps, or "first citizen". Lacking a good precedent of successful one-man rule, Augustus created a junta of the greatest military magnates and stood as the front man. By binding together these leading magnates in a coalition, he eliminated the prospect of civil war. The Pax Romana was not immediate, despite the end of the civil wars, because fighting continued in Spain and in the Alps. Nevertheless, Augustus closed the Gates of Janus (the Roman ceremony to mark world Peace) three times,[2] first in 29 BC and again in 25 BC.
Obama specifically uses that very phrase: "Peace and Security"!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQoyFcaZOC8
Note, however, that before Armageddon comes, the world will have to be under the rule of the United Nations, which is the final, 8th king. So apparently when the UN takes over world rule, it might then establish a clear sense of "peace and security" in the world with all the nations, having given up their individual sovereignty, now cooperate together in the global governance and global economy.
But as soon as the UN attains some notable degree of "peace and security" then Armageddon will start.
As far as believers and unbelievers being on different pages at this time, the Bible describes the two beasts, the 666-beast and the false prophet, as helping to gather the nations to the confrontation with God that is Armageddon. The 666-beast represents Christendom and the lamb-dragon/false prophet, of course, the WTS. So the entire Christian world will recognize this Biblical situation and since the UN will be ruling, it appears they will make a case for the context of a returned Christ who is expecting to begin ruling the entire world.
A scenario where all Christians will recognize who the true Christ is at the time of Armageddon is not outside the Biblical doctrine of the context of Armageddon. Remember, many will at the last minute try to get into the kingdom after the door is closed but will be rejected by Christ. The question is, what changes their minds? They are not convinced by Biblical discussion, so perhaps by some miraculous event they link with God and Christ. At any rate, it would appear the true christ (who is ME) is recognized on some international scale within Christendom and that becomes part of the trigger for Armageddon. We have to see precisely how Christendom along with the WTS together help to gather the nations together for Armageddon as prophesied.
