Matthewing.
It's Official! The Governing Body IS the Faithful and Discreet Slave (Annual Meeting Report - jw.org)
by 00DAD 65 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
-
-
Apognophos
Not to go on a tangent, but I am very familiar with the Stanley in New Jersey, the assembly hall where this meeting was held (as seen in the photos on the jw.org page). I imagine a number of you New Englanders are. It was a luxurious theater that was neglected for years, but bought by the Society and lovingly restored by the brothers. One of them, who had a prominent hand in the work, delighted in walking the friends around and showing us the expensive chandeliers and other fine details. Other aspects of ostentation were too obvious to miss, such as the facades on the sides of the auditorium (again, see photos), which are intended to resemble the streets of Renaissance Italy. The ceiling is not shown in the photos, but it's a sort of painterly planetarium. During intermission they used to dim the lights and turn on the star-and-cloud projector to wow the audience (I think they no longer do that). I wonder how much it will sell for when the Society is done with it? You can read more about it in a surprisingly detailed Wikipedia article (I wonder if I know who wrote it...): Stanley Theater.
-
00DAD
bttt
-
00DAD
bumpin' it for the weekday crowd!
-
BroMac
the writers of the New Testament Books are no longer of the FDS? But the writers of the Finished Mystery were of the FDS.
What about Apostle Paul? Timothy? Barnabas? Agabus? - (Agabus prophecy saved alot of Christians from famine) But he wasn't part of the FDS? Rutherford had a mansion constructed to house the 'Ancient Worthies' upon their Earthly resurection called Beth Sarim, But HE was part of the FDS
I still think it is just a Parable and not a Prophecy, but for them to hold to the FDS as being a prophetic it doesn't really give much confidence in being the GB post 1919, when the evidence overwhelmingly shows that everything is wrong in their Prophetic Predictions.
-
Doubting Bro
I put this thought on another thread but I really think this is a step to change the end time prophesy around.
TJ - I hear what you're saying but what challenges in authority is the GB facing from other "annointed". The power structure is much different today than it was in Russell's or Rutherford's day.
What do you think would happen if an annointed brother or sister persisted in trying to get the GB to change doctrine or even taught different doctrine or shared different ideas with their local congregation. They may be given a little more latitude than say you or I, but they most certainly would be talked to and if they continued, there's no doubt in my mind they would be DF'ed. Nothing in this has really changed that fact.
I agree that there is something motivating this change. And, it's not holy spirit or a revelation from Jehovah/Jesus/whoever.
They know that the 607 arguement doesn't work. You see how many changes they've made over the years to the interpretation of Revalation. If they move up the dates, they'd be able to generate more excitement and urgency. Sure, they'd lose a few but they didn't lose that many when they said the system was going to end in 1975 so I can't imagine they'd lose that many if they moved around the end time date now.
The single most important thing was the appointment of the FDS. Now that they moved it to just the GB, it's easy enough to say the GB didn't officially come into existence until (pick a date - 40s as some of their archieve series is saying or 70s when it actually came into existence). Now that the emergence of a FDS isn't until modern times and not a continous sucession of annointed individuals, then its super easy to push it past 1919.
-
sd-7
Well, then, this raises the question: Is Jesus part of the "faithful and discreet slave"? After all, the anointed are said to be "joint heirs with Christ". Perhaps Jehovah was really the master in Matthew 24:45-47, and he appointed both Jesus and his anointed representatives who work closely with the Governing Body to take the lead in the organization. I see a Beast-Tower article in my future. Jesus is getting demoted, baby. Yes, it's still possible. He'll be down to scrubbing Bethel toilets if he doesn't shave that beard.
--sd-7
-
Cold Steel
....once again women are not important enough to be involved. Only 'brothers'. I don't like that.
Although women cannot be placed in priesthood authority over men, many of Jesus' apostles were not happy that Jesus, on a number of occasions, confided more in some of his female disciples more than the apostles. And when Jesus was resurrected, he first appeared to women. As far as knowledge and enlightenment goes, women are fully equal to men. But they cannot hold the priesthood, be apostles, baptize, or bless the emblems of the Sacrament.
Few of the apostles had any miraculous gifts. Examining the early Christian history, even many of the divisions Paul spoke of, clearly there were questions about the leadership and direction of Christianity in the first century. Their reasoning doesn't add up at all.
Actually, we don't know that. What we do know is that spiritual gifts continued to follow them even after Christ departed. Members of the Twelve healed the sick, continued to have revelation and on one occasion Peter struck two people dead when they sought to defraud the Lord. The top leadership of the Twelve were Peter, James, and John, with Peter being the chief apostle. When revelation concerning the entire church came, it came through Peter. Paul, an outspoken Jewish apostle, was vocal in his arguments. And on some occasions, personal differences arose between them; however, on the whole they were as one. It would have been difficult making the transition to preaching to the gentiles had not revelation finally settled many of the matters, such as circumcision. Remember, too, that Jesus spent 40 days with the apostles teaching them the mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven. These were things that were never taught in the New Testament, and to this day we don't know what those mysteries were. Jesus and the apostles were clear that they were teaching "milk" and not "meat," but we're never told what that meat was.
Jesus could have appeared to the JW Governing Body had he so chosen. There's nothing in the scriptures that would prevent it. So why didn't he? As it is, they have no witnesses to their divine calling, and the scriptures require that "in the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established." They also were not called of God as was Aaron, nor were they ordained as was Aaron and all of the apostles. And if you look at the Jehovah's Witnesses church, there are no ordinations. Elders aren't ordained and as far as I know, neither are the FDS. I mean, who would have the authority to ordain them? If so, whoever ordained them would be greater than they. So no witnesses, no revelation, and no ordinations. That means they're blind guides leading the blind. And if they deny revelation and claim "new light," what's new light if not revelation? Revelation is the act of revealing or disclosing, and religiously, it's the manifestation of divine will or truth. Well, how would new light come except by revelation? But they're scared by that word. It implies things like...prophets, healing, prophecy...very unpleasant in today's world. Skirting the issue by avoiding the word "revelation" won't keep them from being false prophets.
-
00DAD
Doubting Bro: I really think this is a step to change the end time prophesy around.
Could be, but they still trumpet 1914 pretty loudly. The current WT Study edition (9/15/2012) has mentioned 1914 as a significant date in WT history/theology in 4 out of the 5 study articles at least once (Sunday dates are given):
November 4: The same prophecy indicates that God’s Kingdom, pictured by a large stone, was cut from the mountain of Jehovah’s sovereignty in 1914. That stone is now hurtling toward its target—the feet of the image. At Armageddon, the feet and the rest of the image will be smashed. (Read Daniel 2:44, 45.) - p. 7 par. 14
November 11: That harmonious relationship was interrupted when humans, influenced by Satan, rebelled against Jehovah’s sovereignty. Since 1914, however, the Messianic Kingdom has been taking progressive steps to restore that unity - p. 12 par. 18
November 18: After his resurrection, Jesus received authority in heaven and on earth. (Matt. 28:18) He uses that authority to accomplish Jehovah’s purpose according to the timetable God has set. Jesus patiently waited at God’s right hand until 1914 for his enemies to be placed as a stool for his feet. (Ps. 110:1, 2; Heb. 10:12, 13) - p. 20 par. 9
November 25: Let us briefly review what happened after Jesus was installed as King in 1914 and see how some proved themselves ready while others did not. - p. 25 par. 10
Although the anointed had for decades looked to 1914 as a marked year, they did not clearly understand what would happen.When things did not take place as they expected, it could have looked as if the Bridegroomwere delaying. ... “A few of us seriously thought we were going to heaven during the first week of that October [1914].”- p. 25 par. 11
But in 1919, there was a call to wake up! Jesus had come to God’s spiritual temple, and a time for inspection arrived. - p. 25 par. 12
After 1914, The Watchtower made this significant statement: “Brethren, those of us who are in the right attitude toward God are not disappointed at any of His arrangements. We did not wish our own will to be done; so when we found out that we were expecting the wrong thing in October, 1914, then we were glad that the Lord did not change His Plan to suit us." - p. 25 par 13
This last article, "Jehovah Congregates His Joyful People", mentioned 1914 five times in just three paragraphs. Perhaps not too surprisingly, sandwiched in the middle, was a reference to 1919 as the time of Christ's inspection. Taken together, this one article contains six references to these dates in four consecutive paragraphs.
It doesn't look like the WTBTS is abandoning 1914 anytime soon.
-
Doubting Bro
Fair enough 00DAD. They're so difficult to figure out since what they do often isn't logical, especially when your talking about their theology!
Maybe they'll keep 1914 as the start of Jesus reign but move some of the other events into the future?