A truce between Atheists and Non-Atheists?

by palmtree67 699 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  still thinking

  I never said I had to wait....you are saying that. I am saying that may be how I would respond. In fact. No one really knows how they will respond to a situation until it occurs. Same with your forgiveness. You don't really know that you will be able to do that, with a gods help, or not.

  And you are now putting words in my mouth that I am saying that is how everyone should respond. I said no such thing.

  But I do know, I would try to prevent it happening to someone else. And would be even more motivated to do so and for good reason. Things that happen to us become our focus in life. Just as someone that has never been raped does not necessarily go out of their way to fight that cause. But others make it their life mission because they have had personal experience with it.

  And I do know my focus would not be asking one of the many gods available to mankind for help to forgive them.
• 

  tec

  I am attempting to help on the thread, Palm. To bring resolution for some who might be hoping for that. This, as i see it, could help with some of the hurt feelings.

  I could look at it as you said... but that would be me taking a leap to something that I did not see in the statement.

  Sometimes a straightforward comment is better than something someone is supposed to 'read into it'.

  Peace,

  tammy
• 

  palmtree67

  My being sarcastic was merely a chosen means of communication because I felt it was the only way to accurately get my point across. It's not an invalid line of communication.

  Unless an atheist uses it, right?

  See, Sab, you've railed against atheists before for using this "valid line of communication." Double standard.
• 

  sabastious

  I never said I had to wait....you are saying that. I am saying that may be how I would respond. In fact. No one really knows how they will respond to a situation until it occurs. Same with your forgiveness. You don't really know that you will be able to do that, with a gods help, or not.

  You are right I don't know if I would be capable of forgiving. However I do know that it would be the right thing to do. The scenario works perfectly to illustrate how difficult making the right choice can be.

  -Sab
• 

  NewChapter

  Why do you have to wait to be personally affected until you act?

  No. I don't think that protests and demonstrations will be effective. That may be something I could do for myself, but not something I expect to have an impact on those who murder for a nonexistent god. That's the core of the issue. So instead, I promote critical thinking. This may or may not lead to a person discarding belief in a god, but some measure of it is always very helpful, and may prevent a non-atheist from falling into fundamentalism, or unquestioningly following ANYTHING, but always have, at least some, critical thinking skills.

  So in that way, we are acting every day as we challenge, and cause people to look at their belief systems with different eyes. That is the only place that we can truly protect ourselves from the actions of fanatical believers---by being a resistant force and always challenging. Without pull back from this end, a non-critical, non-questioning person could easily be pulled all the way in the other direction. We see what happens when there is no resistance. We have the Islamic world to show us, presently, and the Dark Ages to show us previously. Resistance is necessary and valuable.

  If you are pushed to explain yourself to me, and I criticize your explanation, it is harder to go off the deep end.
• 

  sabastious

  Unless an atheist uses it, right?

  I think sarcasm is fine, it's when they use terms like "megalomania" and "cult" that I call foul. I am the last person on earth who should be complaining about sarcasm. I know you really wanted to discover this double standard, but you are mistaken as is often the case (I'm just messin' with you!).

  -Sab
• 

  palmtree67

  Tec:

  that would be me taking a leap to something that I did not see in the statement.

  Well, sometimes we have to just face the fact that sometimes what we "see" in a statement is not actually there and was not intended.

  Which is what many here have been trying to say - not to take every disagreement as a personal attack. Not "reading into" a statment, just because we happen to dislike the person who said it.
• 

  NewChapter

  "megalomania" and "cult"

  What if those words are the appropriate descriptors? Do you object to calling WT a cult? Do you object to calling Hitler a megalomaniac?

  What if, that is truly the opinion of the poster? What if they believe saying so serves as a warning? Just wondering. I've seen some pretty disturbing things lately, but hold back (mostly) on expressing it.
• 

  still thinking

  You have a profound misunderstanding of what I posted and it goes to show that you are part of the problem, rather than the solution. It's not just the interrogation, I agree that ideas should be pulled apart. However after they are there is no need to deem that person unable to speak further on the subject. There is almost always reasonable doubt to be found in any conclusion if one looks hard enough. Vigilance should never be discouraged....sab

  Thank you for making that judgement about me sab.

  We can personally make any claim we like. In fact, it has been done to me personally on this thread. I don't have to own that. That is someone elses opinion. Just as your judgement of me above is just your opinion of me. That I do not have to personally accept.

  And this is a very good example of making PERSONAL comments instead of discussing the issue.

  There is almost always reasonable doubt to be found in any conclusion if one looks hard enough...sab

  Ah really? So you think that the JW religion deserves equal reasonable doubt? I see very little tolerance from some for their belief on this forum.
• 

  sabastious

  What if those words are the appropriate descriptors? Do you object to calling WT a cult? Do you object to calling Hitler a megalomaniac?

  I believe a strong case has to be made to assert someone is a pathological egotist. And the cult remark was totally unfounded. Are you defending these terms used? The only term I see as accurate to describe JWN believers is eccentric.

  In popular usage, eccentricity (also called quirkiness or kookiness) refers to unusual or odd behavior on the part of an individual. This behavior would typically be perceived as unusual or unnecessary, without being demonstrably maladaptive. Eccentricity is contrasted with "normal" behavior, the nearly universal means by which individuals in society solve given problems and pursue certain priorities in everyday life. People who consistently display benignly eccentric behavior are labeled as "eccentrics".

  Charles Manson is a megalomaniac, not any believer in JWN no matter how eccentric they are. Not liking someone is not an excuse to personally attack them.

  -Sab