Do you call your father by his legal name? Should we for God? (page 5)

Satanus

So, christians are doing strong magic on jesus. Those OTHER guys are doing a bit of magic privately, based on the ot jewish god, yhwh. And???

S

Jeffro

Yes, i understood that.

Yeah I know. Just wanted to make it clear for everyone else.

Satanus, Christians aren't using magic, especially not through the tetragrammaton. The tetragrammaton has little significance in the Church and is forbidden in the Divine Liturgy as well as in most hymns. Using the tetragrammaton tends to render the Gospels null and void and can only be considered a form of Judaizing.

Jeffro

The tetragrammaton has little significance in the Church and is forbidden in the Divine Liturgy as well as in most hymns

As opposed to all the 4-letter sequences of Hebrew letters that are awkward to pronounce without vowels that are really popular in hymns in other languages.

Satanus

NS

If christians aren't how can you say the other guys are? Christians are using jesus, those guys are using yhwh. Yhwh is jewish. Jesus is anglicised greekish jewish. What's wrong w yhwh? Is that not the most accurate name for the jewish god? May i also remind you that yahweh is used in the catholic new jerusalem bible.

S

Jeffro

Satanus:

If christians aren't how can you say the other guys are? Christians are using jesus, those guys are using yhwh. Yhwh is jewish. Jesus is anglicised greekish jewish. What's wrong w yhwh? Is that not the most accurate name for the jewish god?

YHWH and especially it's Hebrew form is (apparently) important in the scary 'Enochian Magickses' that NoStonecutters pretends he doesn't really believe in, in an attempt to retain a small shred of credibility.

NoStonecutters

Satanus, I want to make two points in response to you.

Firstly, the Christian worship of Jesus is by no means occultic. Christians don't require any secret knowledge or powers by which to attain salvation. Everything is out in the open and free to all.

Secondly, the purpose of magic is to elevate man to the status of the divine (God) by acquiring the ability to manipulate nature. Christianity teaches that only God has the rightful ability to do this. Magic and Christianity couldn't be more opposed to each other. Magic is monistic; Christianity is dualistic.

Satanus, traditional Catholics don't follow Second Vatican Council policies (1968) let alone the New Jerusalem Bible (1985). I would argue that it is as insignificant as the modern New Age Bibles, like the NIV and NASB.

LOL@Jeffro, why do you insist that I believe in magic?

Jeffro

Jeffro, why do you insist that I believe in magic?

Because without such a belief, the 'spooky gestures' mean nothing. And you haven't answered any of the previous questions raised either.

And if you, in your heart of hearts, really don't believe in magic, maybe you can explain that to contributors such as 10west (etc) the next time you support elements of their posts about the plans of the 'elite' in league with 'satan'.

Satanus

Nostone

I never said that chritsianity is occult. I said that it's magic. It's practioners seek to change the mind of god through prayers and sacrifices. The greatest sacrifice was for the purpose of changing the mind of god. It was the jesus sacrifice. Christians continuously hark back to that, basing all their prayers on that human sacrifice. How many of those you label satanist use human sacrifice? As well, catholics invoke a multitude of saints, including mary mother of jesus for intersession w god. Is that not magic?

It seems that you label spirituality outside of the catholic umberella as occult, and being occult is automatically wrong, as if the catholic has the monopoly and patent on the spiritual.

'the purpose of magic is to elevate man to the status of the divine (God) by acquiring the ability to manipulate nature. Christianity teaches that only God has the rightful ability to do this.'

I don't know about the freemasons, but i know that hindus see the divine as indwelling in a person since the beginning of his existence. Thus, it's not a matter of elevation. It's more a matter of removal of overburden, similar to the mining of diamonds. In northern canada, huge layers of dirt are removed to get down to the diamond levels. Dirt at diamond levels is further processed to separate out those prescious stones. The processes to discover ones own divinity is somewhat similar, w most people never doing so. Most people dismiss it without even a second thought.

What about when christians are commanding demons, or doing magic tricks in jesus' name? Is that not a manipulation of nature?

The church has a long violent history of not waiting for god to smite its enemies. I don't need to name any examples, as everyone knows a few. In fact, if force had not backed up many of it's evangelizers, if constantine had not made it the religion of the state, an empire w the biggest military at the time, christianity would be just one of many religions in europe. Its bloody history makes your claim that only god should be manipulating nature rather lame. Humans are part of nature. Seems to me, that's it's another way for the church to monopolize the spiritual, closing any loophole to the private practice of religion.

It's an intersting read on monism http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10483a.htm Catholic mystics used to tend to slide into pantheism. The nonmysticism practicing theologians faced no such pantheist danger. They lived out of their minds. The mystics moved more into the spirit. The theologians were the theorists and the mystics were those who put things into practice. Imo, the mystics are the first hand experimenters, while the theologians are arm chair pencil pushers, living vicariously.

S

Do you call your father by his legal name? Should we for God?

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