Similarities between Roman Catholics and Jehovah`s Witnesses

by smiddy 85 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  apostatethunder

  First of all, without the Church we probably wouldn’t even have Jesus words today, or the Bible as we know it, or a continuous and reliable account of our history and culture during the past 2000 years. Secondly, for us as Christians it is nice to go to Church and see more than two or three people gather together and sharing our faith and values.

  The Church was the ultimate authority on the Scriptures until the XV century where all the Reformation movements started, for various personal reasons (Henry VIII, Luther…). Religious and scholars in the Church were honestly seeking truth, St. Augustine, St. Thomas Aquine…. Those who separated were not always moved by honourable motives.

  Closer to our day, all totalitarian regimes of the XX century have seen the Church as an obstacle. Those who seek to bring the Church down, do so only because they crave the moral authority it has for themselves.

  Religions or ideologies that make a central point of their doctrine to criticize the Catholic Church would do well in having a hard look at themselves and what they stand for.

  The Catholic Church is the biggest charity in the world, with hospitals, schools, missions around the world, Caritas for the poor, and they offer support and comfort to their followers without asking them to sell their souls to them...they also help everybody without asking what religion they have, while those who attack it have only their own hatred, sectarianism and self interest to show in contrast.
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  NoStonecutters

  Well said, apostatethunder. The Catholic Church's authoritarianism was a protection mechanism against revolution and religious anarchy. It is not a coincidence that anywhere in Europe where the Reformation gained a stronghold, revolution (even of a sexual nature) and anarchy prevailed.
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  Band on the Run

  I agree that for a church (any religion) to survive on earth, it needs some legitmacy. It needs some authority. When I view the Roman Catholic Church, I see appalling history. Simply appalling unChristian behaviior. This is well document. Yet the church also did extraordinarily good things. Its charitable works move me deeply. When the Church had gross political power, it was corrupt to the core. Vatican II brought new life to the church. European states were becoming quite secular. The Church was so powerful and overreaching that the peasants of the French Revolution destroyed Notre Dame. They were excessive.

  What bothers me in both cases (and the Roman Catholic Church is transformed now) is not legitimacy. One could argue that the WT has no legitimacy. The overreaching and mind control bothers me. I am not a theologian so I can't debate doctrines.

  The Catholic Church believes you need the church as mediator. Simply reading scriptures will lead you to evil. Protestant churches insist that scriptures alone are enough, which is strange b/c they have their ministers and sermons.

  The Witnesses believe you need the GB as mediator. Since the origins of the RC church are vague to most of us, the WT is so much closer to our own time and hence, the claims leads to more skepticism. I visited the Vatican. The poverty of the people and the majesty of the structure, art, and music was striking. I cried looking up at the Sistine Chapel, visitng some catacombs, seeing the Pieta, Raphael, etc. Michaelangelo. Listen to mass music and then listen to kingdom melodies.

  One difference is very obvious since Vatican II. The Catholic laity will not tolerate b/s. They are the chief backers of victims of pedophiles. Many have cut off contributions to the diocese and instead give to small local charities that they can monitor. Look at the American nuns facing down the Vatican. When I worshipped in New York, the Woodstock Jesuit Seminary members and faculty consecrated Anglican Eucharist and delivered the bread or wine to the congregation. I don't know how they were not ejected but they spoke freely and passionately when giving sermons, both in the Anglican church and in their own chapel.

  It is hard to generalize about the RC. The WT is so much more of a monolith. Imagine the WT with the power of the RC church. It makes you want to perish at Armageddon.
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  Chariklo

  Well, I'm a Catholic and have, thank goodness, gone back to the Church.

  I wouldn't know where to even begin to start, but I see virtually no similarity between JW's and Catholics. Someone said that both have a priesthood. no, they don't. Catholics do, in a direct line of laying on of hands going back to Jesus, as they believe. JW's don't even understand the concept of priesthood and do not have even an I oration of it. Their elders are nothing like priests.

  Catholics have seven sacraments. JW's have none, and deny the very concept of sacraments, according to one elder who, with his wife, was indoctrinating me.

  But I just want to lend my support to apostatethunder, and Band on the Run. Apostatethunder, you've already said much that I'd want to say.
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  Twitch

  Paging Sulla...
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  cofty

  They both have an appalling record of abusing children and protecting the perpetrators.

  The both put dogma above the well being of their members - JWs and blood; Catholics and birth control.

  They both ask their members to believe things that no sane person could take seriously.

  They both officially teach there is on salvation outside their respective organisations.

  They both infantalise their adherents but only the Catholics have the balls to actually call their leaders father.

  to be continued...
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  PSacramento

  RE: salvation outside the Church.

  Lets be clear that for the RCC, there is no salvation outside the CATHOLIC church, that is the universal Church of Christ ( anyone that claims that Christ is their lord and saviour are part of the catholic church).

  That does not mean that there is no salvation outside the RCC.

  While most associate Catholic Church with the RCC ( and the RCC doesn't do much to change that view), the reality is that the Cathoilic CHurch is the universal Church of Christ, made up of ALL those the believe Christ is Lord and Saviour, regardless of denomination.

  What the JW's and RCC do share is an organizational heirachy that isn't really biblical.

  The also share an inclination for "human doctrine" to superceed scripture, thought they both tend to disguise that by saying that it is based on biblical interpretation.

  and ex:

  RCC say that the Trinity is implicit on the bible but not explicit ( nowhere does it state that God is a Triune being).

  JW's say that the doctrine that Jesus was the Archangel Michael is implicit but not explicit ( nowhere doe sit state that Jesus was Michael).
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  cofty

  That does not mean that there is no salvation outside the RCC.

  From Catholic Answers.........

  The Fathers likewise affirm the possibility of salvation for those who lived before Christ and who were not part of Israel, the Old Testament People of God.

  However, for those who knowingly and deliberately (that is, not out of innocent ignorance) commit the sins of heresy (rejecting divinely revealed doctrine) or schism (separating from the Catholic Church and/or joining a schismatic church), no salvation would be possible until they repented and returned to live in Catholic unity.

  Extra ecclesiam nulla salus

  When speaking of salvation, Jesus offered more details than just his words quoted above. For example, consider these three verses:

  • He who believes and is baptized will be saved. (Mk 16:16)
  • [U]nless you repent you will all likewise perish. (Lk 13:3)
  • [H]e who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. (Jn 6:54)

  Notice that in these three verses Jesus associated salvation with baptism, confession, and the Eucharist, respectively. Catholics recognize that these sacraments are administered through the Church. In fact, in the case of the latter two, a validly ordained priest is necessary for their administration, so the sacrament of ordination must also be associated with salvation. A primary role of the Catholic Church in conjunction with salvation is becoming quite clear.
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  Chariklo

  PSacramento is quite right, Cofty. The word Catholic means universal.

  Note too that the Catholic Church recognises all baptism as in accordance with its principles, de facto because it accepts as baptised everyone baptised with water, in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and with the intention of baptising. Thus, anyone can actually baptise, as with the case of someone who baptises in extremis, such as a newborn baby with a tenuous hold on life.

  Although you have quoted valid extracts, they are just that: extracts. The Catholic Church is so much more than that.
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  cofty

  So what part of the quotations I posted is just plain wrong?

  a validly ordained priest is necessary for their administration, so the sacrament of ordination must also be associated with salvation .

  separating from the Catholic Church and/or joining a schismatic church), no salvation would be possible until they repented and returned to live in Catholic unity.