by smiddy 85 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
It also teaches that there can be no salvation outside the Church, and by that I do not mean a particular church like the RCC, but the Body of Christ, which is not only here on Earth, but also in Heaven.
And THAT is the key difference between the RCC and the WT in this regard.
In the end, it is up to God, there is no way around that.
I believe it is up to us. God wants all to be saved, and will turn no one back who comes to Him. Those who are not are ones that do not want to be, and choose not to be, and prefer to spend eternity away from God.
I believe it is up to us. God wants all to be saved, and will turn no one back who comes to Him. Those who are not are ones that do not want to be, and choose not to be.
Well, predestination and the elect debates aside, LOL, I agree my friend, 100%
So the pope thinks god is just as happy with a sincere protestant christian as with a RC one? Cool.
So WTF has all the centuries of fighting and forced conversion been about?
So WTF has all the centuries of fighting and forced conversion been about?
Honestly?
Ego and the papacy.
I would suggest, Cofty, that the idea that God would want someone to be Catholic or Protestant is missing the point. We -- well, some of us -- want God. We can't have him, because he is transcendent and a impossible to understand, what with having being as his essence and all. But God, as the Jews and Christians insist, meets us where and as we are. Bronze Age goatherds, Medieval barely-civilized warriors, post-Christian sophisticated hipster brights -- doesn't matter. Turns out, so the Christians insist, God loves everybody.
Finally, of course, he became a man. Doesn't make sense, but there it is. And to facilitate this act moving forward in history, he left a Church. It's a really irritating institution sometimes that happens to have a few crucial benefits. One of which is that it delivers the sacraments, the ordinary means of receiving grace.
But the JW-inspired mindset will miss this, nearly always. For them, God wants this and that; God wants us to preach and God wants us to not fornicate and God wants us to pray and be JWs. And they think that the Catholic approach is similar, except that the Catholics think God really wants everybody to be Catholic. It ain't like that.
So, according to Sulla and the official church doctrine, the RCC is Christ's Church alone, correct? Can we please get a clarification on this? A simple yes or no?
I'd rather this be a learning experience for me. What does the Catholic Church have to offer? Why claim it as the sole truth?
cofty said:
So what about a pious Protestant who knows the gospel but who rejects utterly the doctrines of the RCC and all it stands for?
The Orthodox Church is a viable alternative. Orthodox are not under the Pope's authority, and some branches do not believe in the Immaculate Conception or Indulgences, yet they retain the beautiful doctrines of the Church Fathers. The Protestant Reformation is as tainted as the Catholic Church, if not more.
So WTF has all the centuries of fighting and forced conversion been about?
Forced conversions never came from the papacy. In fact, policy was the opposite, especially during the Spanish Inquisition. However, forced conversions were part of Reformation policies.
He subscribes to the doctine of the "Preisthood of all Belivers" and has utter contempt for the RCC.
This sounds appealing, Cofty, but even Luther learned through the hard school of experience that it wasn't realistic.
Band On The Run said:
Vatican II brought new life to the church.
On the contrary. Vatican II subverted and split the Church and is largely responsible for the Church's current demise. Vatican II was a hijacking by the Church's foes. I recommend reading Judaism and the Vatican, by Vicomte Léon de Poncins, on this matter.
Thomas More tortured many Protestants to death. Death would have been merciful. I was a fan after seeing A Man For All Seasons but recent Henry VIII and his wives bios made me see More in a new light. Good riddance, More.
But, Band on the Run, More was not attempting to torture them into converting to the Catholic faith. They were tortured and exectued as subversives and revolutionaries. It's apparent that More realized there was a coup d'etat taking place in England. Catherine of Aragon's statements of Henry operating within a puppet regime are revealing, especially considering what happened thereafter. Like Bill Clinton, Henry VIII was being exploited through his passions. The Boleyns were agents of the Reformation.
