"Believers" vs. Atheists- Why this formulation?

by Band on the Run 132 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  PSacramento

  True, but I think that in reality, for someone other than God to make that call, is difficult as best.

  I mean, how does one JUDGE anothers Christianity?

  I mean outside the extreme examples of course.

  This has been debated for sometime, when does one become Christian? when does "atonement" take hold? and once it does, how does an outside know? shoudl they know?

  Paul and James seemd to have argued about the "fruits" of faith ( though not to the extent that some make it out to be), Augustine argued about it with the Donatists in that to expect complete "sameness" from all believers is not only unrealistic, it isn't biblical.
• 

  NewChapter

  I think you guys know what I mean.

  No. I don't think you know what you mean. Which is why I'm asking you to break it down--for yourself. Sometimes we say things, and they make sense, but we really can't explain what we mean, but the phrase innoculates us from looking more deeply. You say some Christians have doubts, and others are more steadfast.

  Are you saying that these individuals are different degrees of Christian? Do you think that Jesus would have made such a statement? Is the one that does not doubt, does not question, the higher degreee of Christian?

  I'm asking you to look at what you have said, because I'm not convinced that you have really thought about this. I think you are trying to force things to fit into a view, but it's not working. Not when we look at it critically.
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  NewChapter

  I mean, how does one JUDGE anothers Christianity?

  Do you think you are in a position to judge a JW's Christianity?
• 

  PSacramento

  Do you think you are in a position to judge a JW's Christianity?

  Nope.

  I can certianly judge their Christian doctrines and pretty well I think based on finishing up my 3rd year in my Bach. of Theology.
• 

  PSacramento

  Of course, if I am wrong then that means that either a person IS a Christian or they are not ( no inbetween), which means anyone that is no longer a CHristian, NEVER was a Christian.

  To be a CHristian one is sealed by the HS, if one is sealed by the HS then they can never "stop" being a Christian since they were sealed by the HS.

  So, anyone that "falls away" never was a "true" Christian.
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  EntirelyPossible

  So it's kind of like being a Muslim?
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  NewChapter

  To be a CHristian one is sealed by the HS, if one is sealed by the HS then they can never "stop" being a Christian since they were sealed by the HS.

  So, anyone that "falls away" never was a "true" Christian.

  I know that is a comforting thought. It shields you and other 'true' Christians from reality. I was a 'true' Christian, but you have certainly judged my Christianity by saying that I never really was a Christian. Cofty was a 'true' Christian, but not according to you.

  As I said, it is soothing to think so, but what do you base it on? Perhaps we were just different 'degrees' of Christian? It does make it easy to dismiss us, doesn't it? Safe.
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  NewChapter

  So it's kind of like being a Muslim?

  You were never a true Muslim.
• 

  PSacramento

  Ok, I think I am being a bit muddle here, forgive but it is Monday !

  ALL Christians share the same core belief - Jesus Christ, Son of God, Lord and Saviour, died, resurrected and will come again.

  JW's, Pentacostals, RC, Evangelicals, etc, etc.

  They do however vary in many doctrines and I think only Chtist can decided to what DEGREE they are Christian.
• 

  EntirelyPossible

  ALL Christians share the same core belief - Jesus Christ, Son of God, Lord and Saviour, died, resurrected and will come again.

  Well there's your problem. That wasn't always true. That's a developed idea over many hundreds of years, there were lots of 1st century Christians that didn't believe that.